From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru>
Cc: larsi@gnus.org, stefan@marxist.se, rms@gnu.org, 46627@debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: bug#46627: [PATCH] Add new help command 'describe-command'
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2021 19:27:11 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <83v9acm7bk.fsf@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <a714c4df-a0e1-b4d7-535d-283b5bb227ac@yandex.ru> (message from Dmitry Gutov on Sat, 27 Feb 2021 22:38:31 +0200)
> Cc: larsi@gnus.org, stefan@marxist.se, rms@gnu.org, 46627@debbugs.gnu.org
> From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru>
> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2021 22:38:31 +0200
>
> > We are not ignoring the current practices. We are saying that people
> > who want their discovery based on completion will find the solution in
> > the completion alternatives we have already in Emacs, and if that
> > still doesn't fit the bill, in the 3rd-party packages out there.
>
> Do you have in mind some particular "completion alternative we have
> already" for 'describe-command'?
icomplete.el, completion.el, pcomplete.el, and the non-default styles
in completion-styles-alist come to mind.
> > I
> > think Emacs provides, and will continue providing, ample
> > infrastructure for such extensions, and that's enough, IMO. There's
> > no reason we should feel obliged to develop these features in Emacs.
> > We will never be able to satisfy everyone there anyway.
>
> I believe the argument is that we can improve the default experience by
> enacting some minor changes which correspond to what we know about how
> users discover new commands (or functions) or remember existing ones.
> And do that without pulling in major new functionality or features from
> third-party packages (which goes against the "lean core" concept which
> you probably know I prefer).
This loses the context. Minor improvements were not the issue I
raised, the issue was the perceived attempt to build a significant
discovery framework based on completion.
> There were also suggestions for admittedly more invasive changes (like
> doing a bunch of renames in the standard library) which seem to have all
> been rejected by the leadership. I understand the reluctance to change
> things, but the argument about Emacs's extensibility and the 3rd party
> ecosystem wouldn't apply to it either because no matter how convenient
> and slick an external package might make completion experience, if the
> functions are irregularly named, that will remain a problem anyway.
How is this relevant to the issue at hand?
> So you might disagree on whether this feature is important. But I hope
> you can see how some aspects of the "whole new discovery framework"
> (which I'm saying isn't new) cannot be effectively enacted by 3rd party
> code without help from us here.
I have nothing against providing infrastructure for more sophisticated
completion, I was talking only about adding new commands which aim to
provide discovery based on completion, or extend existing
completion-related commands with the goal of providing discovery
through them.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-02-28 17:27 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 86+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2021-02-19 1:06 bug#46627: [PATCH] Add new help command 'describe-command' Stefan Kangas
2021-02-19 8:42 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-19 17:42 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-19 18:38 ` bug#46627: [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-20 3:25 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-20 4:25 ` Drew Adams
2021-02-20 8:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-20 7:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-19 20:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-20 4:10 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-20 8:18 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-20 17:10 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-21 13:08 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-22 15:58 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-28 13:58 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-28 14:17 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-05-02 13:14 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-20 12:56 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-20 12:59 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-20 16:16 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-20 14:04 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-20 16:06 ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-20 16:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-20 20:06 ` bug#46627: [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-20 20:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-20 20:54 ` Drew Adams
2021-02-20 16:39 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-20 16:49 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-20 20:35 ` bug#46627: [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-20 20:46 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-20 21:16 ` Drew Adams
2021-02-21 15:07 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-21 17:55 ` Drew Adams
2021-02-21 18:11 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-21 18:30 ` Drew Adams
2021-02-26 21:34 ` Drew Adams
2021-02-27 8:04 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-27 17:46 ` Drew Adams
2021-02-21 6:19 ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-21 7:18 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-21 15:27 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-21 16:39 ` Howard Melman
2021-02-21 18:01 ` bug#46627: [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-21 17:01 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-21 17:36 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-21 18:02 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-21 18:21 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-21 19:57 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-21 20:13 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-21 23:46 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-22 15:18 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-27 20:38 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-28 17:27 ` Eli Zaretskii [this message]
2021-02-28 21:40 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-03-01 6:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-02 1:40 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-03-02 5:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-02 12:55 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-03-02 13:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-21 17:57 ` bug#46627: [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-21 17:33 ` Drew Adams
2021-02-21 13:06 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-21 6:27 ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-21 6:10 ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-21 6:27 ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-19 13:12 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-19 18:27 ` bug#46627: [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-19 18:43 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-21 6:18 ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-21 6:27 ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-20 6:56 ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-20 7:14 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-21 6:19 ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-21 6:27 ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-21 7:17 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-22 6:23 ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-24 3:28 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-27 18:58 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-03-01 5:18 ` Richard Stallman
2021-03-01 16:13 ` bug#46627: [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-03-02 6:29 ` Richard Stallman
2021-03-02 6:50 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-03 5:55 ` Richard Stallman
2021-03-03 15:26 ` Drew Adams
2021-03-03 16:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-02 16:52 ` Drew Adams
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