From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#66326: 29.1.50; There should be a way to promote warnings to errors Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2023 10:20:11 +0300 Message-ID: <83v8b1sqtw.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83y1gj5ya9.fsf@gnu.org> <87wmw3zfd3.fsf@catern.com> <83wmw353ny.fsf@gnu.org> <83mswlslxu.fsf@gnu.org> <87o7h0yh7k.fsf@catern.com> <83a5skqvzz.fsf@gnu.org> <83r0lqu7wi.fsf@gnu.org> <83cyxatzva.fsf@gnu.org> <83bkcuty8v.fsf@gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="13515"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: sbaugh@catern.com, 66326@debbugs.gnu.org To: Spencer Baugh Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 20 09:21:15 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qtjop-0003Li-HA for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 20 Oct 2023 09:21:15 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qtjoN-0006UE-9K; Fri, 20 Oct 2023 03:20:47 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qtjoE-0006QO-Nj for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 20 Oct 2023 03:20:38 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:5::43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qtjoB-0003Cp-Pt for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 20 Oct 2023 03:20:36 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qtjob-0004Rz-Vv for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 20 Oct 2023 03:21:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2023 07:21:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 66326 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch Original-Received: via spool by 66326-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B66326.169778646117093 (code B ref 66326); Fri, 20 Oct 2023 07:21:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 66326) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Oct 2023 07:21:01 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38536 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qtjoa-0004Rc-EQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 20 Oct 2023 03:21:00 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:54884) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qtjoX-0004RO-TQ for 66326@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 20 Oct 2023 03:20:59 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qtjny-00036V-9P; Fri, 20 Oct 2023 03:20:24 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=pVmzLY2GFaDCx9KpTIL9MT0/gZLcBm4iKO86KYPT/Ro=; b=MtwTl0WcQSve jiUmoHuA9YrCcYiSe79Q6Eb5NY70fKztUq9iVniknyl3x7A5qHyHQweDxX9fByLW4dYJFqHNxwohz SdBy2clNc6WDWstaE9y/x/IQbbkGe1NC0J3t3PbmnxyGAfDCTOgqkbTg2qpDJuTOJrSUS7QtBDMPO 5X46gbg+kDqehTHUA+R01eZ5SNhy/4FrFYfN3tr4OVfd21avRVQ2uQjJa9+SgwwUNqCziLWS6+XuJ dYLWbp+JPEvzkRMCi3s/uFh9zwwNHp38Ch1dC2zLvoHNtj5C7+qRrEkBxF1z3XTMM6T1HYZUoemfZ bnxBjcF89lvVCVpXzo35vw==; In-Reply-To: (message from Spencer Baugh on Thu, 19 Oct 2023 12:15:52 -0400) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:272779 Archived-At: > From: Spencer Baugh > Cc: sbaugh@catern.com, 66326@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2023 12:15:52 -0400 > > > What worries me more is that there's a way to signal an error that > > could crash Emacs during these early stages of startup. > > I ask this because I genuinely want to understand: Is it a problem for a > error to be signaled during these early stages of startup? It will > prevent Emacs from starting, of course, but is that a problem if this > just causes Emacs to exit and print an error? Signaling errors activates a complex mechanism, which unwinds the Lisp machine stack to top-level and displays various kinds of information. Being able to do this requires some basic setup of the Lisp machine and redisplay, and that doesn't happen miraculously, it is the result of running some bootstrap-like code during startup. If you signal an error before this stuff is ready, or try to display something before Emacs is ready for that, you can cause a segfault or an abort. That is all I can afford saying; if you want more details, you will have to study the code, where you will see, for example, that sometimes some of the display routines return without doing anything if they detect that the necessary infrastructure is not available. I'm trying to prevent you from having to study the code, by asking you not to enable any such dangerous behavior by default, but if you insist on understanding every single detail, you will have to dive into the code, because I cannot afford posting detailed lectures about that -- it will take too much of my scarce free time. > My apologies, I am not intending to dismiss what you're saying, I really > do want to understand the issue. I'm just keeping an open mind: I don't > yet know whether the issue you're raising can actually cause a problem. > Or, if there is a problem, if maybe there's a way to solve the problem > other than this warning-signal-errors-during-startup variable. That's > why I'm trying to understand. I'd appreciate it if you'd keep an open > mind about it too. I _am_ keeping an open mind. If I didn't, I would just reject your proposal from the get-go, because I have reasons to believe that its risks are way greater than its potential usefulness to Emacs users at large. More generally, I'm worried by the tendency of people to submit patches for Emacs as soon as they find something they think is missing in Emacs that they need for some one-time job. Emacs is not supposed to be a huge heap of random features that someone at some time found useful for some random job. Emacs is Free Software: you can easily implement this stuff in your local copy and use it as much as you want; no need to add that to the Emacs core, unless there's a real need for it expressed by enough people, and no better solutions in hand. I do this for my local jobs all the time. So I would be much happier if, instead of dumping a patch on us, people would first describe the issue and the idea on emacs-devel and ask if anyone else had those problems and likes the solution. Posting patches is a kind of pressure on the maintainers: it is harder for the maintainers to reject a contribution than to explain why a problem is not important enough to be solved in core or an idea for its solution is not the best one.