From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#3035: 23.0.92; doc, terminology for graphics, display, terminal, etc. Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 10:16:12 +0300 Message-ID: <83tz4mig8z.fsf@gnu.org> References: <001201c9bf7c$14221e40$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii , 3035@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1240040654 15038 80.91.229.12 (18 Apr 2009 07:44:14 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 07:44:14 +0000 (UTC) To: Drew Adams , 3035@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Apr 18 09:45:32 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Lv5Ew-0004tW-Kv for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 18 Apr 2009 09:45:31 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43500 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Lv5DX-0005Td-Sj for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 18 Apr 2009 03:44:03 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Lv5DS-0005QU-9T for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Apr 2009 03:43:58 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Lv5DP-0005PA-0D for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Apr 2009 03:43:58 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=45539 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Lv5DO-0005P0-NI for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Apr 2009 03:43:54 -0400 Original-Received: from rzlab.ucr.edu ([138.23.92.77]:57958) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Lv5DO-0008LU-15 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Apr 2009 03:43:54 -0400 Original-Received: from rzlab.ucr.edu (rzlab.ucr.edu [127.0.0.1]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n3I7hpaQ028648; Sat, 18 Apr 2009 00:43:52 -0700 Original-Received: (from debbugs@localhost) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) id n3I7P65T023460; Sat, 18 Apr 2009 00:25:06 -0700 X-Loop: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Resent-To: bug-submit-list@donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 07:25:06 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: followup 3035 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 3035-submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B3035.124003898221814 (code B ref 3035); Sat, 18 Apr 2009 07:25:06 +0000 Original-Received: (at 3035) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 18 Apr 2009 07:16:22 +0000 X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. Original-Received: from mtaout5.012.net.il (mtaout5.012.net.il [84.95.2.13]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n3I7GIKS021808 for <3035@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Sat, 18 Apr 2009 00:16:19 -0700 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.i_mtaout5.012.net.il by i_mtaout5.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2004.12) id <0KIA00500C4BKW00@i_mtaout5.012.net.il> for 3035@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; Sat, 18 Apr 2009 10:16:11 +0300 (IDT) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([77.124.144.191]) by i_mtaout5.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2004.12) with ESMTPA id <0KIA002ZSC6YL900@i_mtaout5.012.net.il>; Sat, 18 Apr 2009 10:16:11 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: <001201c9bf7c$14221e40$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 03:43:58 -0400 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:27304 Archived-At: > From: "Drew Adams" > Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 09:46:36 -0700 > Cc: > > 1. `display-graphic-p' has apparently been with us since Emacs 22, but > there is still no mention of it in the Elisp manual. Please document > how/when it is to be used, compared, for instance with when to use > `window-system'. This part is resolved by now, I presume. > 2. In the Elisp manual, I see the use of terms such as "graphical > terminal", "graphicical display" (also "graphics display"), > "(non-)graphics-capable display", "text terminals" (opposed to > graphical), "graphic characters", and "graphical attributes", without > any real explanation or definition. >From the node "Frames", near the beginning: There are two classes of terminals: text-only terminals and graphical terminals. Text-only terminals are non-graphics-capable display devices, including "terminal emulators" such as xterm. On text-only terminals, each frame occupies the entire terminal screen; although you can create additional frames and switch between them, only one frame can be shown at any given time. We refer to frames on text-only terminals as "terminal frames". Graphical terminals, on the other hand, are graphics-capable windowing systems, such as the X Window System. On a graphical terminal, Emacs can display multiple frames simultaneously. We refer to such frames as "window frames". If this is not good enough, please tell what is missing. > Does "graphic" imply mouse support? font support? fringe support? > color support? menu support? tool-bar support, image support? > multiple-frame support? All of these? Does non-graphics imply absence > of all or limited support of some (e.g. frames and colors and fonts)? The node "Display Feature Testing" includes predicates and other APIs that will allow you to test specifically for each one of the questions you ask above. Exceptions: . Menus are supported on all kinds of displays. If you want to ask about pop-up and drop-down menus, use display-popup-menus-p. . Tool bar can be on or off even when it is supported, so the proper test is to look at the value of tool-bar-mode. . Fringe is covered by display-graphic-p. > And there are apparently finer distinctions (which also don't seem to > be explained), such as "graphical terminal that supports extended > ASCII input" (unless what is really meant is "graphical terminal, > which supports extended ASCII input"). Maybe it's because English nuances evade me, but I don't see any difference between these two wordings. > And "graphic display capable of > displaying several frames and several different fonts" (unless what is > really meant is that all graphic displays are so capable). The latter. Again, see "Display Feature Testing". > And "graphical menu bar" (is there a non-graphical one?) Yes, there is. > And there are undefined terms, such as "multi-monitor" They are defined, at least as best as someone who wrote that could: On some "multi-monitor" setups, a single X display outputs to more than one monitor. If that definition lacks something, please tell what is missing. > (BTW, there is quite a bit of such inappropriate quoting in the > manuals - e.g. "function keys".) Quoting is what makeinfo produces from @dfn, a markup that introduces new terminology. It should be followed or preceded by an explanation; if there is one, what's wrong with this quoting? > Perhaps it would be good to see all of these terms explained together > somewhere: display, terminal, monitor, screen, graphic *, frame. (I > assume none of these are synonyms.) They are not. Each one should be explained in its own place, and the more important ones, although certainly not all, are in the Glossary node.