From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#23425: master branch: `message' wrongly corrupts ' to curly quote. Date: Wed, 04 May 2016 18:32:40 +0300 Message-ID: <83twidj0tj.fsf@gnu.org> References: <7e599cf6-18c3-1633-33d5-e9f4eaa8fe6a@cs.ucla.edu> <20160502191031.GB2048@acm.fritz.box> <83a8k7kv87.fsf@gnu.org> <20160503162716.GB11330@acm.fritz.box> <831t5jkrn2.fsf@gnu.org> <20160503200330.GC11330@acm.fritz.box> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1462376083 14872 80.91.229.3 (4 May 2016 15:34:43 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 4 May 2016 15:34:43 +0000 (UTC) Cc: eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 23425@debbugs.gnu.org To: Alan Mackenzie Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed May 04 17:34:32 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1axyoo-0001ua-VC for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 04 May 2016 17:34:31 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48625 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1axyol-0002ob-0x for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 04 May 2016 11:34:27 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:50625) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1axyoc-0002dH-2L for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 04 May 2016 11:34:24 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1axyoP-0004aC-JM for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 04 May 2016 11:34:12 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:53811) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1axyoP-0004Z3-Gp for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 04 May 2016 11:34:05 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1axyoM-0004n2-5J for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 04 May 2016 11:34:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 04 May 2016 15:34:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 23425 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 23425-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B23425.146237598518346 (code B ref 23425); Wed, 04 May 2016 15:34:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 23425) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 May 2016 15:33:05 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37915 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1axynR-0004lq-JN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 May 2016 11:33:05 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:59301) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1axynQ-0004lN-29 for 23425@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 May 2016 11:33:04 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1axyn0-00045o-97 for 23425@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 May 2016 11:32:55 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:50389) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1axyn0-00043d-5w; Wed, 04 May 2016 11:32:38 -0400 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:2205 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1axymt-0003N3-O2; Wed, 04 May 2016 11:32:32 -0400 In-reply-to: <20160503200330.GC11330@acm.fritz.box> (message from Alan Mackenzie on Tue, 3 May 2016 20:03:30 +0000) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:117751 Archived-At: > Date: Tue, 3 May 2016 20:03:30 +0000 > Cc: eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 23425@debbugs.gnu.org > From: Alan Mackenzie > > > > And why is it something that users shouldn't routinely do? > > > Because the theory behind this change is that everyone will want that, > > certainly after they get used to it a little. > > That seems a very strange attitude from an Emacs developer - that one > developer's personal preferences should be imposed on all Emacs users > without the possibility of disabling by configuration. > > It is quite clear from posts in emacs-devel and bug-gnu-emacs over the > last year or so that NOT EVERYBODY wants these curly quote changes. Far > from it. Just like not everybody wants light text on a dark background, > or (thinking back to Emacs 21) not everybody wants fringes on their GUI > screen. Users were complaining for years about the unconfigurable > fringes, until Emacs 22 was released. This is unfair on so many levels, that I simply lost any motivation to continue this discussion. > > If that theory is wrong, we will have to change much more than just > > document that variable or teach users to use it more. > > That theory _is_ wrong, certainly amongst Emacs developers. Even in this > bug thread, two other people have expressed negative sentiments about > this matter. So we have 3 people against that. Is it really enough? > > > Surely it should be a configuration variable. Some people, like me, > > > don't like being lied to by a computer program. > > > You are not being lied to. Just think of ` and ' as yet another > > format specifier character, not unlike %. > > They're not - they're literal characters. So is %. > > emacs -Q > > M-: (setq text-quoting-style 'grave) RET > > M-: (message "`this'") RET => `this' > > > What am I missing? > > That in that scenario, (message "`this'") ; with curly quotes > gets converted to "`this'" ; with ASCII quotes. This is not wanted. Not sure why. But anyway, the change such as what you suggest is too pervasive to install on the emacs-25 branch, unless we want to delay the release. Too bad these issues didn't come up in time.