From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#50331: 28.0.50; Propose to obsolete cwarn.el Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2021 11:28:57 +0300 Message-ID: <83tuj3nzxy.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87y28fa3qj.fsf@gmail.com> <8335qnphc4.fsf@gnu.org> <87zgsvbdm4.fsf@gmail.com> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="3111"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 50331@debbugs.gnu.org, andlind@gmail.com To: Zhiwei Chen Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Sep 02 10:30:14 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mLi6w-0000cT-PE for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 02 Sep 2021 10:30:14 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33568 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mLi6v-000200-6v for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 02 Sep 2021 04:30:13 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40212) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mLi6l-0001zp-9f for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 02 Sep 2021 04:30:03 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:56423) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mLi6l-00070G-07 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 02 Sep 2021 04:30:03 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mLi6k-0005Kn-Qr for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 02 Sep 2021 04:30:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2021 08:30:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 50331 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: moreinfo Original-Received: via spool by 50331-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B50331.163057135520408 (code B ref 50331); Thu, 02 Sep 2021 08:30:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 50331) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Sep 2021 08:29:15 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39736 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mLi5v-0005J1-MY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 02 Sep 2021 04:29:15 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:52266) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mLi5q-0005IS-7D for 50331@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 02 Sep 2021 04:29:10 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:53294) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mLi5k-0006A4-Uk; Thu, 02 Sep 2021 04:29:00 -0400 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:4982 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mLi5k-0000RL-Bi; Thu, 02 Sep 2021 04:29:00 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87zgsvbdm4.fsf@gmail.com> (message from Zhiwei Chen on Thu, 02 Sep 2021 16:12:03 +0800) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:213259 Archived-At: > From: Zhiwei Chen > Cc: 50331@debbugs.gnu.org, andlind@gmail.com > Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2021 16:12:03 +0800 > > Why would I like to obsolete cwarn? > > Actually, I'm making an introduction to Emacs builtin modes (in Chinese) > to see how powerful the vanilla Emacs is. But I found, Emacs is not so > orthogonal in functionality. e.g., `whitespace-mode' provides > `whitespace-cleanup' while simple.el has `delete-trailing-whitespace'. > Is it time to do subtraction for Emacs? There are too many packages > merged into Emacs, but a few are removed from Emacs (to elpa maybe). That's true, and one way we have for doing that is moving some stuff to GNU ELPA. But that is WIP, and we didn't yet figure out how to move stuff to ELPA from core without punishing our users. So we need to wait for that work to be completed before we can talk about making Emacs core thinner. In any case, obsoleting packages is not the right way of doing that, IMO: there's nothing obsolete in a package that offers some functionality which doesn't have a 1:1 replacement. > The main reason for obsoleting cwarn is that its functionality can be > superseded by flycheck/flymake. Those packages require a compiler to be installed, which is one prerequisite cwarn doesn't have. And I personally don't yet feel flymake is functional enough and stable enough to be a complete replacement for specialized packages like cwarn; if nothing else, flymake takes much more resources than cwarn. (flycheck is not relevant, since it is not part of Emacs, and probably never will be.) > The result of https://grep.app/search?q=cwarn-mode shows that there > are few users of cwarn. That's not enough, because if you are one of those few users, removing the package will deliver a blow, and knowing that you are a member of a small group doesn't help. > Of course this result may be wrong, after all https://grep.app/ > only searches the git repo and all data on the Internet. The safe way to > do this is to raise a poll and let the community decide if cwarn should > be removed. Since Emacs is such a monster of 40yrs, the expected result > is that most users never know there is a package named cwarn. In a recent discussion on Reddit, it turned out many don't know about dabbrev.el as well, but I hope no one will propose to obsolete or remove it on those grounds. So I think we should not obsolete cwarn for now.