From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#56117: 29.0.50; pgtk does not distinguish between and "."/"," Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2022 12:49:58 +0300 Message-ID: <83tu8bemk9.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87y1xqkc77.fsf@yahoo.com> <87v8ssi4xi.fsf@yahoo.com> <87tu8bzul6.fsf@gnus.org> <87sfnvhk0m.fsf@yahoo.com> <83wnd7eqbs.fsf@gnu.org> <87k097hixh.fsf@yahoo.com> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="21855"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: larsi@gnus.org, stefan@marxist.se, 56117@debbugs.gnu.org, qsx@chaotikum.eu To: Po Lu Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Jun 23 12:29:04 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1o4K5A-0005Wu-2f for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 23 Jun 2022 12:29:04 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42654 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o4K58-0001wX-NY for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 23 Jun 2022 06:29:02 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49558) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o4JUM-0005pH-7A for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 23 Jun 2022 05:51:03 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:43568) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o4JUL-0000GZ-Us for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 23 Jun 2022 05:51:01 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o4JUL-0003Fx-Ti for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 23 Jun 2022 05:51:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2022 09:51:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 56117 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 56117-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B56117.165597783312481 (code B ref 56117); Thu, 23 Jun 2022 09:51:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 56117) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Jun 2022 09:50:33 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37465 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o4JTq-0003FC-05 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 23 Jun 2022 05:50:33 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:36188) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o4JTn-0003Ey-9f for 56117@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 23 Jun 2022 05:50:29 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:39652) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o4JTf-00006j-Ai; Thu, 23 Jun 2022 05:50:19 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=KrHOZaX0aYUPHjGSIoF0lnp0Fpm5bIxk6Z2eccRgmWs=; b=MtTq4LW/c4+P YlO87yqKw7d6JSRO7LE5dkFLIgnIs4iSVmlFa+APYNgoqfy466Z5ZFNUeJ2brJoKNLHcgjWRsy69h bg9Wt21dAvu2yHOitcHPWeoW8kudfHfMUNo59OJXARu0EM2sKu5Nfph4+zo0Vq0syRS3HXyGtkT8N r+v8I4CO6YWgwpCrbz2WhJb6WMWSA0FuAUuRnLlxsOfkKUJKqe/00jH5ZqcpqTeQoDJdEy//xGxxW 9bi33seL4jDWVOPT2b4NRNa7saVpq8I5YNgKVX/+MbpY25/KWy/KGsoVgu3mtMUGUDaF/IJRhGerb 50BN1BQxZVZi97QWTpLIDA==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=4093 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o4JTU-0003u5-0L; Thu, 23 Jun 2022 05:50:17 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87k097hixh.fsf@yahoo.com> (message from Po Lu on Thu, 23 Jun 2022 16:40:10 +0800) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:235094 Archived-At: > From: Po Lu > Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 56117@debbugs.gnu.org, stefan@marxist.se, > qsx@chaotikum.eu > Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2022 16:40:10 +0800 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > Maybe we are talking about an issue that is not understood well enough > > by some participants (e.g., myself). Can you please describe in more > > detail what causes this particular issue? > > Basically, GTK input methods (which are maintained outside GTK) tend to > "swallow" the difference between keypresses like "C-S-u" and "C-u", > along with the difference between "kp-separator" and the separator > itself. > > The reason is that doing so is slightly more convenient for the input > method developers, and most GTK programs, unlike Emacs, have no need to > tell those keypresses apart. And there's absolutely no way for Emacs to get at the original keys? Or for users to configure their systems so as to work around this "swallowing"? I have hard time believing that no one has discovered any workarounds for this misfeature. Emacs may be rare in its needs of accessing keys, but it cannot be the only application that does that. The NumLock key is there for a reason, and applications do use it. > So in practice, Emacs users either have the choice of disabling the use > of system input methods, or putting up with those issues. Can those system input methods be easily toggled, which would allow to disable them temporarily, just for the period of time the kp-* keys are needed? > They are already documented in PROBLEMS, but somehow we still get a > continuous stream of people reporting them as bugs in Emacs. Because it's an annoying problem, I'm guessing, and the solution has downsides that users perhaps consider annoying as well. PROBLEMS is only a satisfactory solution when a problem is rare or the solution doesn't rob one of too much of useful functionality.