From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#62892: proposal to extend mark-sexp to go forward and backward on command Date: Fri, 26 May 2023 09:06:31 +0300 Message-ID: <83ttvzlj88.fsf@gnu.org> References: <86jzxwuedr.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="2962"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: ruijie@netyu.xyz, juri@linkov.net, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 62892@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com To: zkanfer@gmail.com, rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri May 26 08:07:32 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1q2Qbs-0000W8-3O for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 26 May 2023 08:07:32 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1q2QbQ-00034x-3a; Fri, 26 May 2023 02:07:04 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1q2QbO-00034m-Pc for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 26 May 2023 02:07:02 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1q2QbO-0005kt-Hj for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 26 May 2023 02:07:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1q2QbO-0006Cd-0H for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 26 May 2023 02:07:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 26 May 2023 06:07:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 62892 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 62892-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B62892.168508118423800 (code B ref 62892); Fri, 26 May 2023 06:07:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 62892) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 May 2023 06:06:24 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48617 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1q2Qam-0006Bn-9g for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 May 2023 02:06:24 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:56738) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1q2Qaj-0006BZ-JB for 62892@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 May 2023 02:06:22 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1q2Qac-0005fS-7w; Fri, 26 May 2023 02:06:14 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=Pa6ESZ64axFDU+xtVpyyCV3XqJ9NEZyAse+hPJT5P7w=; b=gbCY8ixMijvs cUgF0sRWGcwNusMqH2viOBYHQBwA53lLfiNq4Dnw9WLz+BY4HYOs7KGvZ22zBOaqxaWt7yBTGOdTL pQ1ywWm2vcg/X4a4kPp5cYFZ52Y6qE3Mbtoy3qFIXnziSlxioo+8WYPRtIQUrD8v/FTxlsKPuYAkq v0+GwcPF/AGFcXgNthTJ1gdAentBzR1f/7rYpy8WBdUshlZZYGLohLQYkduJSnzDDWgdaQSKZfKtW CcMKoZ5qepD7urnj798eHfPODu3K8uWzc83Z/vdhd9Xm3ZAph1EnvrkjljOoA8ql6UmXPXoYYX9+a vzj/9MIiUYX0lKz6rFBqmw==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1q2QaP-0005Ad-Pr; Fri, 26 May 2023 02:06:02 -0400 In-Reply-To: (message from Richard Stallman on Thu, 25 May 2023 18:32:56 -0400) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:262405 Archived-At: > Cc: ruijie@netyu.xyz, 62892@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, > drew.adams@oracle.com, juri@linkov.net > From: Richard Stallman > Date: Thu, 25 May 2023 18:32:56 -0400 > > I don't think we could find standard key bindings that are easy enough > to be worth thinking about. > > > > Are you envisioning that users would bind some of these functions > > > to keys themselves? > > > Yes. This is the main use-case I envisioned. > > This is not outright unreasonable. I still doubt they would > interest many users, and I would not favor documenting these > features fully in the Emacs Manual. After some more thinking, I came to the conclusion that I can only support adding these new commands if they would work in a much more predictable fashion: always move forward/back by ARG sexps and set the region on all the sexps they moved across. IOW, no change in behavior depending on whether transient-mark-mode is ON or OFF, no change in behavior depending on whether the region is active or not, and no confusing notion of "extending the region" lumped into them. Adding such simple commands could cater to those users who want predictable marking behavior; perhaps those user will also want to rebind C-M-f and C-M-b to these new commands. But adding new commands that still change behavior in mysterious ways depending on transient-mark-mode and active region is not something I would like to do. Sorry for bringing this up so late, I probably should have said this at the very beginning of this discussion, if I were thinking fast enough to realize this back then.