From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#1305: All code that currently beeps should use visual bell instead Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2021 14:38:02 +0300 Message-ID: <83sg3nu8kl.fsf@gnu.org> References: <009901c9421f$5bd0a6b0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <00ad01c942a0$1f49ca60$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <87eef9qg81.fsf@gnus.org> <1869622e162377be79e9@heytings.org> <83bladw0dh.fsf@gnu.org> <87a6pxqdeg.fsf@gnus.org> <875z0lqcj4.fsf@gnus.org> <1869622e1602a39e56a6@heytings.org> <83a6pwumt1.fsf@gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="35735"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 1305@debbugs.gnu.org, stefan@marxist.se, jasonspiro4@gmail.com, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca To: Gregory Heytings Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Apr 18 13:41:05 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lY5nV-0009CS-5c for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 18 Apr 2021 13:41:05 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55090 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lY5nU-0000Tl-8S for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 18 Apr 2021 07:41:04 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:33738) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lY5lW-0000RM-L6 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Apr 2021 07:39:02 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:34049) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lY5lW-0000GR-7w for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Apr 2021 07:39:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lY5lW-00061O-69 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Apr 2021 07:39:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2021 11:39:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 1305 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 1305-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B1305.161874591823094 (code B ref 1305); Sun, 18 Apr 2021 11:39:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 1305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Apr 2021 11:38:38 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45591 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lY5l4-00060M-GV for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 Apr 2021 07:38:38 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:49058) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lY5l2-000609-Ca for 1305@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 Apr 2021 07:38:33 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:49881) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lY5kw-0008Vf-Rx; Sun, 18 Apr 2021 07:38:26 -0400 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:2967 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1lY5ku-000296-7b; Sun, 18 Apr 2021 07:38:26 -0400 In-Reply-To: (message from Gregory Heytings on Sun, 18 Apr 2021 11:10:45 +0000) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:204324 Archived-At: > Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2021 11:10:45 +0000 > From: Gregory Heytings > cc: larsi@gnus.org, jasonspiro4@gmail.com, 1305@debbugs.gnu.org, > stefan@marxist.se, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca > > > I don't see how Emacs is the odd one out here. > > It just feels awkward by today's standards. I don't share that opinion, but maybe we have different ideas of today's standards. > > And we are bikeshedding again: the opinions are clearly divided, and > > Emacs lets each one of us customize this feature as they see fit. So > > why is arguing about the default so important, when there's clearly no > > consensus? > > We are discussing what a better default could be; in another thread the > discussion is about a better default for the 'match' face. Is discussing > the default UX useless because everyone can customize everything? That's not what I said. Discussing changes in the defaults is useful when there's consensus and/or when customization is tricky. Neither of those are true in this case.