From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se>
Cc: 56508@debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: bug#56508: Suggestions for the "Help" menu
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 15:54:52 +0300 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <83sfn6xzhf.fsf@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CADwFkmmzZ9uTNew+xSA74tqLJ90gn3Cp3R_WtXUyp1UznOs_7g@mail.gmail.com> (message from Stefan Kangas on Mon, 11 Jul 2022 22:16:00 -0500)
> From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se>
> Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2022 22:16:00 -0500
> Cc: 56508@debbugs.gnu.org
>
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>
> >> From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se>
> >> Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2022 21:04:51 -0500
> >>
> >> Suggestions for the "Help" menu:
> >
> > I object. We just reshuffled that menu recently, let's not touch it
> > for another major release or two.
>
> Sorry, I must have missed that we did that. In any case, I don't think
> that is very good grounds for not making further improvements.
Oh yes, it is: every significant change in the UI/UX means confusion
for users who are used to the previous one. It is only kind to them
to let them some time to adapt.
> > Specific comments:
> >
> >> 1. Remove "Emacs FAQ". It is not nearly as up-to-date as the
> >> manual, and most users these days will either find it by other
> >> means or just search the web.
> >
> > So you are basically saying we don't need the FAQ?
>
> I'm saying that we don't need it in the menu (at least not in its
> current shape).
Many applications that are serious about their users have such a menu
item on the Help menu. I see no reason why Emacs shouldn't.
> >> 2. Remove "Emacs Psychotherapist". Sorry, but in terms of chatbots
> >> there are *way* better ones out there these days. If anything,
> >> move it to "Games".
> >
> > I object to making Emacs dead serious, because it will make it dead.
>
> Agreed, but there is plenty of space between "dead serious" and
> "whimsical".
<Shrug> it's a matter of personal opinion, so let's not argue about
that. The important question is: does that single menu item do any
harm?
> >> Should it get a better name?
> >
> > Do you have any suggestions?
>
> "Show Multilanguage Status" is already an improvement.
Not really: it isn't correct English, for starters.
We could use m17n, but I doubt that would be clearer.
Our current stopgap is to tell more in the help-echo (which you for
some reason ignore in your criticism).
> >> 5. "Describe Coding System Briefly" under "Describe" -- is this
> >> useful? I just get this cryptic message here:
> >>
> >> F[U:],K[U:],T[U:],P>[=:],P<[=:], default F[U:],P>[U:],P<[U:]
> >
> > It's completely understandable here: File encoding, Keyboard encoding,
> > Terminal encoding, Process encoding (input and output).
>
> I don't doubt that you understand it, but I don't think many new users
> will. I don't understand almost any of it myself. For example, what
> does "=:" mean?
Do you understand those mnemonics on the mode line? Then why not
here?
And what does "default" mean? It means "default". Each coding-system
has its default value and its current value. Cf
buffer-file-coding-system and (default-value 'buffer-file-coding-system).
> This looks like a power-users tool, not like something that belongs in
> the help menu, to me.
Power users sometimes need help, too.
Of course, if you have a less cryptic way to say all that in a single
line, I'm all ears.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2022-07-12 12:54 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 16+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2022-07-12 2:04 bug#56508: Suggestions for the "Help" menu Stefan Kangas
2022-07-12 2:40 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-07-12 3:16 ` Stefan Kangas
2022-07-12 8:26 ` miha--- via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2022-07-12 10:10 ` Stefan Kangas
2022-07-12 13:14 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-07-12 13:31 ` Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2022-07-12 13:15 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-07-12 12:54 ` Eli Zaretskii [this message]
2022-07-12 13:37 ` Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2022-07-12 13:54 ` Stefan Kangas
2022-07-12 14:04 ` Stefan Kangas
2022-07-12 14:21 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-07-12 15:25 ` Drew Adams
2022-07-12 15:20 ` Drew Adams
2022-07-12 13:35 ` Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
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