From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#9402: list-colors-display Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 20:40:49 +0300 Message-ID: <83r541eaxq.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87obz83v0x.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <838vqcf086.fsf@gnu.org> <834o0yg5cm.fsf@gnu.org> <8762ldvs89.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87ei01lfa7.fsf@mail.jurta.org> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1314812522 7159 80.91.229.12 (31 Aug 2011 17:42:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 17:42:02 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 9402@debbugs.gnu.org To: Juri Linkov Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Aug 31 19:41:58 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QyonW-0005U9-Ju for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 31 Aug 2011 19:41:58 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58800 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QyonS-0003DI-Rz for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 31 Aug 2011 13:41:54 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:54074) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QyonO-000329-9g for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 31 Aug 2011 13:41:51 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QyonM-00018L-RT for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 31 Aug 2011 13:41:50 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:51086) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QyonM-00017F-PS for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 31 Aug 2011 13:41:48 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QyoqU-0001jq-6V; Wed, 31 Aug 2011 13:45:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 17:45:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 9402 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 9402-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B9402.13148126486606 (code B ref 9402); Wed, 31 Aug 2011 17:45:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 9402) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Aug 2011 17:44:08 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qyopb-0001iU-U3 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 31 Aug 2011 13:44:08 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout20.012.net.il ([80.179.55.166]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QyopY-0001iK-Dz for 9402@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 31 Aug 2011 13:44:05 -0400 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout20.012.net.il by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0LQS00L00ZQQHQ00@a-mtaout20.012.net.il> for 9402@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 31 Aug 2011 20:40:48 +0300 (IDT) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([84.229.83.44]) by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0LQS00KOXZRZN3P0@a-mtaout20.012.net.il>; Wed, 31 Aug 2011 20:40:48 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: <87ei01lfa7.fsf@mail.jurta.org> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Resent-Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 13:45:02 -0400 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:50486 Archived-At: > From: Juri Linkov > Cc: 9402@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 19:27:45 +0300 > > >> Another question is why the face definition of `region' has > >> platform-specific colors for GTK and NS, but not for Windows. > > > > I would actually turn the table and ask why the heck do we have > > system-specific defaults for GTK and NS. I thought Emacs was supposed > > to behave the same on all platforms, except where it's impossible. > > Emacs should respect the user settings even if they are made on > system level. How many users actually change these system-level settings from their defaults? My guess is zero. > Emacs already respects the user's choice of system-specific colors > on a tty (with `unspecified-fg' and `unspecified-bg') and some other > system-specific customizations. You have it backwards. The _only_ reason Emacs does that is on a tty is that many text terminals cannot be queried about their colors. When Emacs can do that, it sets its own default colors. > I don't remember the goal of trying to look the same on all platforms > and indeed Emacs already doesn't look the same on different platforms: > there are different scroll bars, frame decorations, fonts, icons, etc. These are specific to GUI toolkits and/or window managers. IOW, something that is out of Emacs control. Colors that Emacs uses for non-default faces do not fall under the same category. > So Emacs should adapt to the platform defaults as much as possible. Obviously, I disagree. Emacs should have the same defaults on all platforms, as much as possible. People such as myself who use Emacs on multiple platforms become very confused when the colors they expect don't show.