From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#52063: 28.0.60; Confusing presentation of lambda Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2021 22:14:03 +0200 Message-ID: <83r1b571mc.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83czmqaegb.fsf@gnu.org> <874k82vwe5.fsf@gnus.org> <831r35afde.fsf@gnu.org> <87v90hu36b.fsf@gnus.org> <83v90h8zjw.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1b5u1cl.fsf@gnus.org> <83pmqp8vps.fsf@gnu.org> <87sfvly160.fsf@gnus.org> <83ilwh8pf2.fsf@gnu.org> <83a6ht8n3p.fsf@gnu.org> <83v90h72ki.fsf@gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="35290"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 52063@debbugs.gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Nov 24 21:15:12 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mpyff-0008sb-SH for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 24 Nov 2021 21:15:12 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47704 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mpyfe-0000sO-CQ for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 24 Nov 2021 15:15:10 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:50072) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mpyfX-0000rw-Kx for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Nov 2021 15:15:03 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:43527) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mpyfW-0004lK-5E for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Nov 2021 15:15:03 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mpyfV-0001xw-T5 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Nov 2021 15:15:01 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2021 20:15:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 52063 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 52063-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B52063.16377848547423 (code B ref 52063); Wed, 24 Nov 2021 20:15:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 52063) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Nov 2021 20:14:14 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55073 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mpyek-0001vf-27 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 24 Nov 2021 15:14:14 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:49048) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mpyef-0001vM-6L for 52063@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 24 Nov 2021 15:14:12 -0500 Original-Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=46516 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mpyeZ-0004c6-NI; Wed, 24 Nov 2021 15:14:03 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=2cvmtUsldj9RflsrE2swPh6i61lVLOMVEMgd3HmhaOM=; b=mrsyJgFrtYg5 EPXF+YrdZzz88L/0rSPwmeFwI6HFCJpZ4QxdO0aAL7CJIPMomIkKhUgg3hMm3qAafwIW7HN9BnZST dGg+1u4STyuAWP+nOu4+kfHE1bN/WjtyRf8AxG76EfRLSvqkBcdupn082kT7rHoEXWLLfuhA6dy0E RfxvcwAjLoU1FR37CVEOYy1E73GumwwNS1D7Pf/KlPf3Bk+wEDPsbceuBbNEptb2OpXT+7sM2oAVv +dutUczvRF49WIpRV6mxVJ3Qh13H+Y8UHZwJZ+aQA23psjQwSIKPPJPsqmNbJYmENwnKCsvIq7E1V 0h79ycc31RjSpeVR0Wnu2Q==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=2029 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mpyeZ-0003on-Ae; Wed, 24 Nov 2021 15:14:03 -0500 In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Monnier on Wed, 24 Nov 2021 15:08:38 -0500) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:220775 Archived-At: > From: Stefan Monnier > Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 52063@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2021 15:08:38 -0500 > > > And we also have menu items and mode-line constructs > > that sometimes use anonymous functions. > > I think it's very rare for a user to look at those objects. > > > And timer functions. > > I can't remember the last time I looked at such a value. And given the > extra info attached to it, it's not very legible so I don't think people > are affected very much by a change in the actual function > representation there. > > > And process filter and sentinel functions. > > Same here: you will often set them, but very rarely will you actually > look at their value. I look at the values to make sure they are what I expect. It's normal in Emacs to do that, isn't it? > > So I guess the warning about quoting lambdas with ' instead of #' is > > actually misleading people into getting these closures instead of the > > lambdas they might expect? > > A value (lambda ...) is fundamentally a list. The rest of the system > (e.g. the byte-compiler, flymake, ...) can't know if you intend to use > this list as a function, so it can't really look inside to compile its > body, warn you about typos in its body, or uses of obsolete > vars/functions, etc... I'm talking about evaluation, not about byte-compilation. This happened when Emacs was processing my init file. > It's all about the difference between code and data ;-) What difference? I always thought that in Emacs Lisp there's no such difference. Does lexical-binding change that as well?