From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#55156: [PATCH] eval.c: New functions `defvar-f` and `defconst-f` Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 08:44:08 +0300 Message-ID: <83r15hbw47.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87tuaep47a.fsf@gnus.org> <87pml2p35g.fsf@gnus.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="3001"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 55156@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Apr 28 07:47:45 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1njx0C-0000et-OF for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 28 Apr 2022 07:47:44 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:41230 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1njx0B-0001sG-Dr for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 28 Apr 2022 01:47:43 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:35982) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1njwxa-0000FM-J6 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 28 Apr 2022 01:45:02 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:51084) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1njwxa-0002kn-4O for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 28 Apr 2022 01:45:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1njwxZ-0004NO-WC for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 28 Apr 2022 01:45:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 05:45:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 55156 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch Original-Received: via spool by 55156-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B55156.165112465816755 (code B ref 55156); Thu, 28 Apr 2022 05:45:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 55156) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Apr 2022 05:44:18 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44981 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1njwws-0004MB-Hv for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 28 Apr 2022 01:44:18 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:42482) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1njwwr-0004M0-CW for 55156@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 28 Apr 2022 01:44:17 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:44514) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1njwwl-0002ea-Bs; Thu, 28 Apr 2022 01:44:11 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=SdD9MHbtrDzfYj8sojvGctpo8fnqhnzdKYRzeM3q5RI=; b=HGqCr6GzFICT YapcvbOvj/kAs1xdacFLuYqm6KRlSIWrjEAwvjTWwshIhJTxd9E9u17VEyr++DT9wX65LI1epmu+T iHUV0P5iljFN/AK1L/h2IyBkSfBbL344LoDeQaWtcOGE0jqhi1pwrGC6Fk4smZMVgE/Yxy6Ts5K02 Y3gsoebdU7UzQKZGOqMtI218mMXVTtXBZOvvGwaREU1JltxQNehG6nvWW6YghGpojWWI2FGKuMCS0 OFzKFGGnn0+WOjsAhb6LHROIOMqKGLxpBQBt8ANJf0Z2BS6f/J0B/jVUdOyMv6S42phqL+U/zPdpF 0JPFs6MkH7JlL4FFXhpJ8w==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=1233 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1njwwk-00084W-4p; Thu, 28 Apr 2022 01:44:10 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87pml2p35g.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Thu, 28 Apr 2022 00:33:47 +0200) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:230831 Archived-At: > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 00:33:47 +0200 > Cc: 55156@debbugs.gnu.org > > Oh, if we call a function containing the defvar... Yes, that's probably > rare enough that nobody's noticed. Famous last words. > I think I'd prefer keeping the behaviour we currently promise, but I > don't have a strong opinion. I sincerely question the wisdom of messing with this, for the reasons that were described, which seem to be some inelegant code somewhere in the bowels of the byte compiler. Do we really care enough about such inelegance to make potentially breaking changes in code that works for decades and causes zero trouble to Lisp programmers? And I'm quite sure that the replacement code might look no more elegant to people other than the author. I suggest that we all take a step back and re-evaluate the need for this. It is IME exactly the kind of change that prevents Emacs from becoming steadily more and more stable as time goes by.