From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#64596: 30.0.50; On FIXME: in src/buffer.c:1481 (force-mode-line-update) Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2023 18:22:01 +0300 Message-ID: <83r0p9b3om.fsf@gnu.org> References: <877cr4nez9.fsf@localhost> <83lefj4okb.fsf@gnu.org> <83fs5r3tqv.fsf@gnu.org> <834jm6fppc.fsf@gnu.org> <87a5vyidy6.fsf@localhost> <83sf9qe2ip.fsf@gnu.org> <83a5vxejz6.fsf@gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="30848"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: yantar92@posteo.net, 64596@debbugs.gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Jul 15 17:22:41 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qKh6X-0007ms-1Y for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 15 Jul 2023 17:22:41 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qKh6C-0007SE-6M; Sat, 15 Jul 2023 11:22:20 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qKh67-0007Ra-By for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 15 Jul 2023 11:22:15 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:5::43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qKh5u-0006id-NZ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 15 Jul 2023 11:22:14 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qKh5u-00032E-J0 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 15 Jul 2023 11:22:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2023 15:22:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 64596 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 64596-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B64596.168943451311644 (code B ref 64596); Sat, 15 Jul 2023 15:22:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 64596) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Jul 2023 15:21:53 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45801 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qKh5k-00031j-Mt for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 15 Jul 2023 11:21:53 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:36178) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qKh5i-00031R-93 for 64596@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 15 Jul 2023 11:21:51 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qKh5c-0006cX-Qz; Sat, 15 Jul 2023 11:21:44 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=QnwMd0qkxoJvoRkTqojipFtMP4L+QswPY5E96mA2aRk=; b=gaHV253vggVZ qMDS+MsG/Wncn7fbL1T+ngGh6vLgj69LkKr7dqjZY3qE6qj6UDw0+NycenkL62YXTbHvvXLmWqVqG 5SgKALlxyWl42l//lw3gB0QM5YO5CTKxzY1iHWMPI+SMqatFUXcSQg61nLysnsS6YNFnNymG/JmhD pK7stojQfTjp+zid1FG8vQqTF9EaL2wZgitTkSTOmQX+oiFKfAvsHLHCPVN29AgrapzPCK/pkS7U8 xAFv7vGCbf2/7OZzAyr8JG8WH+1lwaiWhEiUTJ9qle2a+O712gRt+lcUTP/8KTP/ema/kOoMK2MOu mZ8BZBo7Ppo+v0H8oJOUhw==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qKh5c-0003Fg-AY; Sat, 15 Jul 2023 11:21:44 -0400 In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Monnier on Sat, 15 Jul 2023 10:49:37 -0400) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:265218 Archived-At: > From: Stefan Monnier > Cc: yantar92@posteo.net, 64596@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2023 10:49:37 -0400 > > > performance problem. Because otherwise making changes in code that we > > don't sufficiently understand can only cause bugs, > > It can introduce bugs, but in my experience when dealing with code > I don't understand, it's by breaking the code that you learn how it > works, so saying "can only cause bugs" doesn't make sense. It makes a lot of sense to me. So let's agree to disagree here. To reiterate my firm opinion: either someone steps forward to work on this seriously and systematically, or we should leave this code alone, for better and for worse. > The change can bring more clarity to the code, which is beneficial > in the long term, and if it introduces bugs then presumably some > users will see them, report them, and that will bring us better > understanding of the code. If someone wants to lead such a project for the next 10 years or so, maybe. But what happens in reality is that the breaking changes are made, and then the "guilty parties" disappear into thin air, or lose interest. And we are left with a broken redisplay and an unfinished project. > That's eactly what happened when I introduced the 3 `redisplay` bits > above: it did introduce a few bugs, but overall it made the code > more clear. No, that's not "exactly" what happened. Some of the bugs popped up much later, among other things. I agree that the added comments made the situation better, but you know as well as I do that some of the aspects of those variables are still somewhat mysterious: specifically the meaning of windows_or_buffers_changed and update_mode_lines for disabling optimizations and shortcuts. Which is exactly the focus of the current discussion. > > and guess who gets to work on fixing them. > > AFAIK, for the bugs introduced by those `redisplay` bit: I did, as > it should. Not all of them.