From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#14380: 24.3; `network-stream-open-tls' fails in some imap servers on w32 Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 18:44:02 +0300 Message-ID: <83ppwnvut9.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87k3mw79iv.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87zjvr64lt.fsf_-_@lifelogs.com> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1368978292 31979 80.91.229.3 (19 May 2013 15:44:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 15:44:52 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 14380@debbugs.gnu.org, tzz@lifelogs.com To: =?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_?= =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=A1vora?= Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun May 19 17:44:51 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ue5n0-0000cn-HK for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 19 May 2013 17:44:50 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59232 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Ue5mz-0004HS-A2 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 19 May 2013 11:44:49 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:35879) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Ue5mr-0004HJ-NA for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 19 May 2013 11:44:46 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Ue5mm-0006VF-QK for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 19 May 2013 11:44:41 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:34961) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Ue5mm-0006V7-Mc for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 19 May 2013 11:44:36 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Ue5nC-00075F-Og; Sun, 19 May 2013 11:45:03 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, bugs@gnus.org Resent-Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 15:45:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 14380 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs,gnus X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 14380-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B14380.136897830127221 (code B ref 14380); Sun, 19 May 2013 15:45:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 14380) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 May 2013 15:45:01 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51550 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Ue5nA-00074q-72 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 19 May 2013 11:45:01 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout21.012.net.il ([80.179.55.169]:43573) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Ue5n7-00074M-1e for 14380@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 19 May 2013 11:44:58 -0400 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout21.012.net.il by a-mtaout21.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MN100800XTLUL00@a-mtaout21.012.net.il> for 14380@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 19 May 2013 18:44:18 +0300 (IDT) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout21.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MN1008CLYDQVL10@a-mtaout21.012.net.il>; Sun, 19 May 2013 18:44:15 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:74404 Archived-At: > From: Jo=E3o T=E1vora > Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 12:45:12 +0100 > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 14380@debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-deve= l@gnu.org >=20 > The fix I proposed aims for the status quo, that is: make external > TLS binary support slightly more robust. I already said at lest twice in this thread: THIS WON'T WORK on Windows (except in Cygwin Emacs). The communications between the external TLS client and Emacs are via signals, which aren't really supported by Windows. Solving this was one of the main reasons for incorporating GnuTLS into Emacs. I don't really understand what are we still discussing here. Let me describe how the current situation looks from my POV: . Emacs can be built with GnuTLS support if GnuTLS is installed on the end-user's machine, and that end user builds her own Emacs. This is the same as on Unix. I hope no one will say this is "not built-in". . Windows users get special treatment in that precompiled binaries of Emacs are available for those who cannot or won't build their own. These precompiled binaries are built with GnuTLS support to begin with. . As yet another bonus for Windows users, Emacs will happily start and run even if GnuTLS is not found on the end-user's machine; however, TLS will not be available in that case, of course (Emacs will announce that if required to use TLS). So now you tell me how come these two bonuses are somehow regarded as deficiencies? Would it be better not to produce binaries at all, or let them abort with a fatal error if GnuTLS is not installed? Installing GnuTLS boils down to unzipping a single zip archive. How hard can that be for someone who uses Emacs??