* bug#22669: loading term/xterm.elc loads cl-lib at runtime
@ 2016-02-14 22:57 Glenn Morris
2016-02-15 3:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Glenn Morris @ 2016-02-14 22:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 22669
Package: emacs
Version: 25.0.91
Loading term/xterm.elc loads cl-lib at runtime.
This means that cl-lib is loaded at startup in "emacs -Q -nw", which is
undesirable.
Apparently it's avoidable: http://debbugs.gnu.org/22613#63
we'd have to pre-fill cl-generic's dispatcher cache with the specific
dispatcher used (grep for cl--generic-prefill-dispatchers to see what
that looks like).
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread* bug#22669: loading term/xterm.elc loads cl-lib at runtime
2016-02-14 22:57 bug#22669: loading term/xterm.elc loads cl-lib at runtime Glenn Morris
@ 2016-02-15 3:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-15 18:12 ` Glenn Morris
0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2016-02-15 3:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Glenn Morris; +Cc: 22669
> From: Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org>
> Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2016 17:57:00 -0500
>
> Loading term/xterm.elc loads cl-lib at runtime.
> This means that cl-lib is loaded at startup in "emacs -Q -nw", which is
> undesirable.
Why is that undesirable?
How is xterm.el different from any other package which requires
cl-lib?
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* bug#22669: loading term/xterm.elc loads cl-lib at runtime
2016-02-15 3:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2016-02-15 18:12 ` Glenn Morris
2016-02-15 19:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Glenn Morris @ 2016-02-15 18:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: 22669
Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> Loading term/xterm.elc loads cl-lib at runtime.
>> This means that cl-lib is loaded at startup in "emacs -Q -nw", which is
>> undesirable.
>
> Why is that undesirable?
>
> How is xterm.el different from any other package which requires
> cl-lib?
This was explained in http://debbugs.gnu.org/22613#45
Because we generally try to ensure that simply running "emacs -Q"
doesn't need any non-preloaded files to start up. lisp/term/xterm is
something of a corner case. Compare with term/x-win etc, which is
preloaded.
Also in this particular case, it can create the mistaken impression that
cl-lib is always available, which I think leads to some of the ongoing
confusion in bug#22613.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* bug#22669: loading term/xterm.elc loads cl-lib at runtime
2016-02-15 18:12 ` Glenn Morris
@ 2016-02-15 19:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-16 6:34 ` Glenn Morris
0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2016-02-15 19:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Glenn Morris; +Cc: 22669
> From: Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org>
> Cc: 22669@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 13:12:25 -0500
>
> Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>
> >> Loading term/xterm.elc loads cl-lib at runtime.
> >> This means that cl-lib is loaded at startup in "emacs -Q -nw", which is
> >> undesirable.
> >
> > Why is that undesirable?
> >
> > How is xterm.el different from any other package which requires
> > cl-lib?
>
> This was explained in http://debbugs.gnu.org/22613#45
Sorry, I don't see any explanation there. What I do see is the fact
that we treat lisp/term/* files specially. I agree with that, since
these files are only loaded at startup when needed, so they are not
something "emacs -Q" "needs".
I also see there a suggestion to figure out why cl-lib gets loaded,
and I believe this part is now complete.
> Also in this particular case, it can create the mistaken impression that
> cl-lib is always available, which I think leads to some of the ongoing
> confusion in bug#22613.
OK, but that doesn't sound like a problem we need to fix in the code.
So my vote is not to fix this one.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* bug#22669: loading term/xterm.elc loads cl-lib at runtime
2016-02-15 19:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2016-02-16 6:34 ` Glenn Morris
2016-02-16 15:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Glenn Morris @ 2016-02-16 6:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: 22669
Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> these files are only loaded at startup when needed, so they are not
> something "emacs -Q" "needs".
term/xterm is needed in 90+% of -nw or without-X builds on GNU/Linux.
(Pulling a reasonable number from the air. All the terminal emulators
people actually use load term/xterm.)
So IME that counts as "effectively preloaded" and therefore makes this
something worth fixing.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* bug#22669: loading term/xterm.elc loads cl-lib at runtime
2016-02-16 6:34 ` Glenn Morris
@ 2016-02-16 15:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2016-02-16 15:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Glenn Morris; +Cc: 22669
> From: Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org>
> Cc: 22669@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2016 01:34:10 -0500
>
> > these files are only loaded at startup when needed, so they are not
> > something "emacs -Q" "needs".
>
> term/xterm is needed in 90+% of -nw or without-X builds on GNU/Linux.
> (Pulling a reasonable number from the air. All the terminal emulators
> people actually use load term/xterm.)
> So IME that counts as "effectively preloaded" and therefore makes this
> something worth fixing.
Perhaps I don't understand the policy. My interpretation of it is
that we preload stuff that is needed by 100% of builds during every
startup. Under this interpretation, 90+% is not enough, especially
since there are also GUI sessions which don't need that at all.
So I don't think your observation convinces me, even if I agree with
your 90+% figure. I don't think we should punish the rest of the
users by preloading a non-trivial amount of code they might never
need.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2016-02-16 15:55 UTC | newest]
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2016-02-14 22:57 bug#22669: loading term/xterm.elc loads cl-lib at runtime Glenn Morris
2016-02-15 3:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-15 18:12 ` Glenn Morris
2016-02-15 19:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-16 6:34 ` Glenn Morris
2016-02-16 15:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
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