From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#21998: Run 'make change-history' on release branch Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2016 18:02:00 +0200 Message-ID: <83oaaquvif.fsf@gnu.org> References: <56BE7E37.3090708@cs.ucla.edu> <4hd1rw1ubr.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1457366606 23530 80.91.229.3 (7 Mar 2016 16:03:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2016 16:03:26 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 21998@debbugs.gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Mar 07 17:03:14 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1acxcn-0003Dq-Me for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 17:03:13 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56714 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1acxcn-0000q7-1k for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 11:03:13 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:47680) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1acxcf-0000ju-A7 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 11:03:09 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1acxcc-0001xj-0y for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 11:03:05 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:41106) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1acxcb-0001xf-UT for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 11:03:01 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1acxcb-0004xY-O5 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 11:03:01 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2016 16:03:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 21998 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 21998-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B21998.145736653719013 (code B ref 21998); Mon, 07 Mar 2016 16:03:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 21998) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Mar 2016 16:02:17 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38233 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1acxbt-0004wb-5W for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 11:02:17 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:56513) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1acxbr-0004wN-75 for 21998@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 11:02:15 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1acxbi-0001qS-Nv for 21998@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 11:02:09 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:46560) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1acxbi-0001qO-KH for 21998@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 11:02:06 -0500 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:1208 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1acxbV-0004gK-HR; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 11:01:54 -0500 In-reply-to: (message from Richard Stallman on Mon, 07 Mar 2016 01:51:17 -0500) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:114534 Archived-At: > From: Richard Stallman > Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2016 01:51:17 -0500 > Cc: 21998@debbugs.gnu.org > > > At this point, I give up, since it seems fairly clear that maintaining > > an accurate ChangeLog just isn't of interest. Even the bare minimum > > legally relevant mistakes (missing "tiny change") don't seem to be being > > corrected. > > In concrete terms, what is the problem with these mistakes? The mistakes are not being corrected. Experience shows that correcting them is enough of an annoyance to discourage people. > Where is the master record of this information now? In the Git commit messages. > Is it being maintained correctly there? When a mistake is made there, it cannot be corrected, because Git commit log is immutable. Corrections must be made manually to a ChangeLog file produced from the Git log by a script. That proved not to work well, see above. It also proved to be a non-trivial problem when merging changes from the release branch to master -- for this latter issue we still don't have any idea for how to solve it reliably and without requiring a lot of manual labor. > Probably just deleting it from the repo would be more honest. > > What exactly are you proposing as the new practice > for handling ChangeLog files? There are 3 possibilities: . Keep the current system, where ChangeLog is produced from Git log and mistakes made in Git log should be corrected manually after producing ChangeLog . Give up on having ChangeLog files, either produced from Git log or maintained in the repository -- meaning a tarball will not include any ChangeLog at all . Go back to previous practice where we maintained ChangeLog files in the repository, and Git log messages were just copies of the ChangeLog entries