From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#6130: 23.1; artist-mode spray-can malfunction Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2015 10:12:51 +0200 Message-ID: <83mw58sikc.fsf@gnu.org> References: <8dd014e7478827e94e3a8fe5b2b948e0@lysator.liu.se> <54BA6A0A.4080408@gmx.at> <54BB8375.9000506@gmx.at> <54BFD9D9.70708@gmx.at> <54C1402D.1000100@gmx.at> <54C205D0.3000607@gmx.at> <83mw59u91v.fsf@gnu.org> <54C27CD2.1040402@gmx.at> <83ppa5rxxo.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1422087197 31221 80.91.229.3 (24 Jan 2015 08:13:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2015 08:13:17 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 6130@debbugs.gnu.org, busk@lysator.liu.se To: Daniel Koning Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jan 24 09:13:16 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YEvqF-0006eI-Pr for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 24 Jan 2015 09:13:15 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:34268 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YEvqE-0004Uj-T2 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 24 Jan 2015 03:13:14 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:34964) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YEvqB-0004Tt-AW for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 24 Jan 2015 03:13:12 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YEvq2-0006G3-0J for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 24 Jan 2015 03:13:11 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:36080) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YEvq1-0006Fz-TR for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 24 Jan 2015 03:13:01 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YEvq1-00075W-Ky for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 24 Jan 2015 03:13:01 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2015 08:13:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 6130 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 6130-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B6130.142208717827236 (code B ref 6130); Sat, 24 Jan 2015 08:13:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 6130) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Jan 2015 08:12:58 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54772 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YEvpx-00075D-Ea for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Jan 2015 03:12:57 -0500 Original-Received: from mtaout23.012.net.il ([80.179.55.175]:61906) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YEvpu-00074y-1t for 6130@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Jan 2015 03:12:55 -0500 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout23.012.net.il by a-mtaout23.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0NIO00D009CE1W00@a-mtaout23.012.net.il> for 6130@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Jan 2015 10:12:47 +0200 (IST) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout23.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0NIO00D3O9HA0B30@a-mtaout23.012.net.il>; Sat, 24 Jan 2015 10:12:47 +0200 (IST) In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:98667 Archived-At: > From: Daniel Koning > Cc: Stefan Monnier , rudalics@gmx.at, 6130@debbugs.gnu.org, busk@lysator.liu.se > Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2015 15:52:54 -0600 > > When an argument is called DISPLAY even though it can be other things > besides a display, the function still works in every case that its name > and its arguments' names suggest that it should work. > > But when the return value is called WINDOW when it might not be one, > then it becomes a source of potential error merely to rely on the > function to behave as its name suggests. Sure, you can write > documentation to warn users about the pitfall, but misleading naming > conventions are one of the factors that cause people to write mistaken > documentation. (Cf. the documentation of `posn-window' until a few days > ago!) I agree that the documentation was (or maybe still is) in the need of improvement (documentation of events is quite obscure, to tell the truth, and was like that for a very long time). But I fail to see the crucial difference between these two examples. In any case, the example I brought up was just the first thing that popped up in my mind, you can find plenty of examples of the other kind as well. IOW, in Emacs one must read the documentation before they believe the literal meaning of an argument's name. > If that's the main problem with assigning accurate names in polymorphic > contexts -- that the names end up too long when you include every > possible type -- how about defining a supertype which includes (in this > case) both windows and frames? Try proposing one, maybe we will adopt it. However, we have bad experience with terminology that only Emacs uses, or, worse, where the Emacs meaning is different from that of the rest of the world. So I'm not sure this path is better.