From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#61847: debug-early-backtrace only works some of the time. Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2023 15:32:35 +0200 Message-ID: <83lekgfvgs.fsf@gnu.org> References: Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="39946"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 61847@debbugs.gnu.org To: Alan Mackenzie Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Mar 01 14:34:22 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pXMb7-000A5p-PK for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 01 Mar 2023 14:34:21 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pXMar-0003xy-Cu; Wed, 01 Mar 2023 08:34:05 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pXMao-0003xS-Q6 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 01 Mar 2023 08:34:03 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pXMao-0005Ki-Ba for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 01 Mar 2023 08:34:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pXMao-0001lX-3T for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 01 Mar 2023 08:34:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2023 13:34:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 61847 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 61847-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B61847.16776775946731 (code B ref 61847); Wed, 01 Mar 2023 13:34:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 61847) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Mar 2023 13:33:14 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53027 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pXMa2-0001kV-3D for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 01 Mar 2023 08:33:14 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:49938) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pXMa1-0001kH-5u for 61847@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 01 Mar 2023 08:33:13 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pXMZs-0004wn-Ee; Wed, 01 Mar 2023 08:33:05 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=WUDyM5lQJ3toqEt8qrPEpApx4WxLRVEPEHNnqX5hjK0=; b=jOukuNQirXOO kVhQu0+hhcVhYWcOgu1wLxQ1yASLUnfhVy952pvFrFS8YKhyMpeNvXOTUk+2bVneHNMiScQ54gCky /tDwAHv21rsk1lC7zR8nCXSPyAhZKOe4UmQNtGXgzkY6a0POYKAQJeN/oEWTqg10Y/qcIXSeN8BFH 48LHoN0xr+icvnWCfdhGnBRJzUZDtj29fZS6qOVWZsFYXjYL9lJUEkFmT4mFFU/hMSxhfYgt8Cfvj LAjFgnD5ND9ovBdu5eIxaJ+xxtxIghptjZCoOJCAPCawSsS8cuTaG4/fhWxlIi7+9+8UmJBefdAR9 5ppau4rh3vsqVuPQWwFLfg==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pXMZC-0008BJ-EO; Wed, 01 Mar 2023 08:32:47 -0500 In-Reply-To: (message from Alan Mackenzie on Tue, 28 Feb 2023 19:52:33 +0000) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:257062 Archived-At: > Cc: 61847@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2023 19:52:33 +0000 > From: Alan Mackenzie > > The purpose of a backtrace is not to enter a beauty contest. Rather > it's to provide the programmer with as much information as > reasonably possible to solve a bug. Information that is humanly-readable and understandable, yes. Not just any information. Showing raw bytes of the bytecode is not very useful information, IMNSHO. Or at least we could make it much more useful, if we really want that part to be presented to the programmer. > prin1 by contrast prints the actual contents of the function - its byte > code string and its constant vector, among other things. It may not be > as "readable", but it is infinitely more useful to the person trying to > debug a bug. 1 is "infinitely more" than zero, but it is still just 1. Not 1`00 and not 1000. IOW, just because relatively you get an "infinite" improvement, the net improvement is still very small, and there's no reason to stop there. So your argument against cl-prin1, if taken to its logical conclusion, should be rephrased as "let's improve cl-prin1", not "let's go back to the infinitely useless prin1".