* bug#66503: 29.1; Problem rendering Arabic diacriticals
@ 2023-10-12 17:52 John Wiegley
2023-10-12 19:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-10-12 20:39 ` Alan Third
0 siblings, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: John Wiegley @ 2023-10-12 17:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 66503
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Hello maintainers,
I have found that Emacs does not render Arabic diacriticals correctly when
there are multiple of them. Here is a rendering of tashdid + fatha by Emacs
29:
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This is me editing ArabXeTeX input, which renders to the PDF correctly.
Here is the same text in Mellel, which also renders it correctly:
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John
In GNU Emacs 29.1 (build 1, x86_64-apple-darwin22.6.0, Carbon Version 169
AppKit 2299.7)
Windowing system distributor 'Apple Inc.', version 10.16.0
System Description: macOS 13.6
Configured using:
'configure
--prefix=/nix/store/5f9f96yzv1c4jxs65wh91mhcxxvpm044-emacs-mac-macport-29.1
--disable-build-details --with-modules --with-gif=no --with-jpeg=no
--with-png=no --with-tiff=no --with-x=no --with-xpm=no
'--enable-mac-app=$$out/Applications' --with-gnutls=yes --with-mac
--with-xml2=yes --without-ns --with-native-compilation --with-tree-sitter'
Configured features:
ACL GMP GNUTLS JSON LIBXML2 MODULES NATIVE_COMP NOTIFY KQUEUE PDUMPER SQLITE3
THREADS TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS TREE_SITTER WEBP ZLIB
Important settings:
value of $EMACSLOADPATH:
value of $EMACSNATIVELOADPATH:
value of $LC_CTYPE: en_US.UTF-8
value of $LANG: en_US.UTF-8
locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix
Major mode: Group
Minor modes in effect:
TeX-PDF-mode: t
typo-global-mode: t
org-extra-emphasis-intraword-emphasis-mode: t
org-edna-mode: t
gnus-topic-mode: t
hl-line-mode: t
gnus-undo-mode: t
dired-hist-mode: t
shell-dirtrack-mode: t
corfu-popupinfo-mode: t
server-mode: t
vertico-multiform-mode: t
vertico-mode: t
global-corfu-mode: t
winner-mode: t
global-whitespace-cleanup-mode: t
which-key-mode: t
display-time-mode: t
shackle-mode: t
selected-global-mode: t
selected-minor-mode: t
save-place-mode: t
savehist-mode: t
repeat-mode: t
recentf-mode: t
persistent-scratch-autosave-mode: t
midnight-mode: t
auto-image-file-mode: t
global-auto-revert-mode: t
override-global-mode: t
tooltip-mode: t
show-paren-mode: t
electric-indent-mode: t
mac-mouse-wheel-mode: t
file-name-shadow-mode: t
global-font-lock-mode: t
font-lock-mode: t
blink-cursor-mode: t
buffer-read-only: t
column-number-mode: t
line-number-mode: t
transient-mark-mode: t
auto-composition-mode: t
auto-encryption-mode: t
auto-compression-mode: t
temp-buffer-resize-mode: t
Load-path shadows:
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Memory information:
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--
John Wiegley GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F
http://newartisans.com 60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* bug#66503: 29.1; Problem rendering Arabic diacriticals
2023-10-12 17:52 bug#66503: 29.1; Problem rendering Arabic diacriticals John Wiegley
@ 2023-10-12 19:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-10-12 19:30 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-10-12 20:40 ` John Wiegley
2023-10-12 20:39 ` Alan Third
1 sibling, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2023-10-12 19:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: John Wiegley; +Cc: 66503
> From: "John Wiegley" <johnw@gnu.org>
> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 10:52:16 -0700
>
> Hello maintainers,
>
> I have found that Emacs does not render Arabic diacriticals correctly when
> there are multiple of them. Here is a rendering of tashdid + fatha by Emacs
> 29:
>
> This is me editing ArabXeTeX input, which renders to the PDF correctly.
>
> Here is the same text in Mellel, which also renders it correctly:
Please also provide the text as text, so we could compare the
rendering you see with what we see in other builds of Emacs. On
macOS, which you seem to be using, Emacs uses the system text-shaping
engine, which is different from HarfBuzz we use on most other
platforms, so the rendering we see could be different.
Thanks.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* bug#66503: 29.1; Problem rendering Arabic diacriticals
2023-10-12 19:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2023-10-12 19:30 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-10-12 20:40 ` John Wiegley
1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2023-10-12 19:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: johnw; +Cc: 66503
> Cc: 66503@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 22:26:04 +0300
> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
>
> Please also provide the text as text, so we could compare the
> rendering you see with what we see in other builds of Emacs. On
> macOS, which you seem to be using, Emacs uses the system text-shaping
> engine, which is different from HarfBuzz we use on most other
> platforms, so the rendering we see could be different.
In addition, please tell which font are you using in Emacs for Arabic.
Some Arabic fonts don't support all the ligatures and OpenType
features that correct Arabic shaping requires.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* bug#66503: 29.1; Problem rendering Arabic diacriticals
2023-10-12 17:52 bug#66503: 29.1; Problem rendering Arabic diacriticals John Wiegley
2023-10-12 19:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2023-10-12 20:39 ` Alan Third
2023-10-13 6:21 ` Eli Zaretskii
1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Alan Third @ 2023-10-12 20:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 66503
On Thu, Oct 12, 2023 at 10:52:16AM -0700, John Wiegley wrote:
> Hello maintainers,
>
> I have found that Emacs does not render Arabic diacriticals correctly when
> there are multiple of them.
> In GNU Emacs 29.1 (build 1, x86_64-apple-darwin22.6.0, Carbon Version 169
> AppKit 2299.7)
> Windowing system distributor 'Apple Inc.', version 10.16.0
> System Description: macOS 13.6
FYI I believe this is Mutsuharu Yamamoto's Mac port.
The NS port uses substantially the same code-base for font production,
I think, but there' may be differences.
--
Alan Third
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* bug#66503: 29.1; Problem rendering Arabic diacriticals
2023-10-12 19:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-10-12 19:30 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2023-10-12 20:40 ` John Wiegley
2023-10-13 6:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: John Wiegley @ 2023-10-12 20:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: 66503
>>>>> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> Please also provide the text as text, so we could compare the rendering you
> see with what we see in other builds of Emacs. On macOS, which you seem to
> be using, Emacs uses the system text-shaping engine, which is different from
> HarfBuzz we use on most other platforms, so the rendering we see could be
> different.
I’m always surprised by how much I forget to add to a bug report.
The font is Scheherazade New (great font, btw):
https://fonts.google.com/specimen/Scheherazade+New
Here is the text:
\ayat{زيرا مُجاهِدينِ کَعبِۀ فِينَا
به بِشارَتِ لَنَهْدِيَنَّهُمْ سُبُلَنَا
مَسرور اند}
--
John Wiegley GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F
http://newartisans.com 60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* bug#66503: 29.1; Problem rendering Arabic diacriticals
2023-10-12 20:40 ` John Wiegley
@ 2023-10-13 6:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-10-13 17:04 ` John Wiegley
2023-10-14 5:19 ` John Wiegley
0 siblings, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2023-10-13 6:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: John Wiegley; +Cc: 66503
> From: John Wiegley <johnw@gnu.org>
> Cc: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 13:40:06 -0700
>
> >>>>> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>
> > Please also provide the text as text, so we could compare the rendering you
> > see with what we see in other builds of Emacs. On macOS, which you seem to
> > be using, Emacs uses the system text-shaping engine, which is different from
> > HarfBuzz we use on most other platforms, so the rendering we see could be
> > different.
>
> I’m always surprised by how much I forget to add to a bug report.
>
> The font is Scheherazade New (great font, btw):
>
> https://fonts.google.com/specimen/Scheherazade+New
>
> Here is the text:
>
> \ayat{زيرا مُجاهِدينِ کَعبِۀ فِينَا
>
> به بِشارَتِ لَنَهْدِيَنَّهُمْ سُبُلَنَا
>
> مَسرور اند}
Thanks. Here on MS-Windows using HarfBuzz I see the same display as
what you show for Mellel. Here's what "C-u C-x =" tells me about
what Emacs did here:
position: 54 of 83 (64%), column: 14
character: ن (displayed as ن) (codepoint 1606, #o3106, #x646)
charset: unicode (Unicode (ISO10646))
code point in charset: 0x0646
script: arabic
syntax: w which means: word
category: .:Base, R:Strong R2L, b:Arabic
to input: type "C-x 8 RET 646" or "C-x 8 RET ARABIC LETTER NOON"
buffer code: #xD9 #x86
file code: not encodable by coding system iso-latin-1-dos
display: composed to form "نَّ" (see below)
Composed with the following character(s) "َّ" using this font:
harfbuzz:-outline-Courier New-regular-normal-normal-mono-32-*-*-*-c-*-iso10646-1
by these glyphs:
[10 12 1617 841 19 7 12 27 -20 [0 1 0]]
[10 12 1614 1000 19 0 19 16 0 nil]
with these character(s):
َ (#x64e) ARABIC FATHA
ّ (#x651) ARABIC SHADDA
Character code properties: customize what to show
name: ARABIC LETTER NOON
general-category: Lo (Letter, Other)
decomposition: (1606) ('ن')
The above is with the default font Emacs uses on Windows. If I force
Emacs to use the Scheherazade New font, I also see the display you
expected (similar to Mellel), although the composition info is a bit
different (which is expected, as this is a different font):
Composed with the following character(s) "َّ" using this font:
harfbuzz:-outline-Scheherazade New-regular-normal-normal-*-23-*-*-*-p-*-iso10646-1
by these glyphs:
[10 12 1617 1674 0 -1 6 25 -16 [0 3 0]]
[10 12 1614 1115 6 -1 7 9 0 nil]
with these character(s):
َ (#x64e) ARABIC FATHA
ّ (#x651) ARABIC SHADDA
So it sounds like the Arabic shaping in your Emacs is not up-to-mark
or something.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* bug#66503: 29.1; Problem rendering Arabic diacriticals
2023-10-12 20:39 ` Alan Third
@ 2023-10-13 6:21 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2023-10-13 6:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Alan Third; +Cc: 66503
> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 21:39:52 +0100
> From: Alan Third <alan@idiocy.org>
>
> On Thu, Oct 12, 2023 at 10:52:16AM -0700, John Wiegley wrote:
> > Hello maintainers,
> >
> > I have found that Emacs does not render Arabic diacriticals correctly when
> > there are multiple of them.
>
> > In GNU Emacs 29.1 (build 1, x86_64-apple-darwin22.6.0, Carbon Version 169
> > AppKit 2299.7)
> > Windowing system distributor 'Apple Inc.', version 10.16.0
> > System Description: macOS 13.6
>
> FYI I believe this is Mutsuharu Yamamoto's Mac port.
>
> The NS port uses substantially the same code-base for font production,
> I think, but there' may be differences.
I don't see HARFBUZZ in the features posted by John, so I guess that
port doesn't use HarfBuzz.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* bug#66503: 29.1; Problem rendering Arabic diacriticals
2023-10-13 6:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2023-10-13 17:04 ` John Wiegley
2023-10-14 5:19 ` John Wiegley
1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: John Wiegley @ 2023-10-13 17:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: 66503
>>>>> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> Thanks. Here on MS-Windows using HarfBuzz I see the same display as what you
> show for Mellel. Here's what "C-u C-x =" tells me about what Emacs did here:
Very interesting, we have very different reckonings of the buffer contents. In
both of your cases you both see the fatha and shadda at the same character
position. In my buffer, they are not at the same position:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
On the nún character:
position: 11198 of 92599 (12%), column: 14
character: ن (displayed as ن) (codepoint 1606, #o3106, #x646)
charset: unicode-bmp (Unicode Basic Multilingual Plane (U+0000..U+FFFF))
code point in charset: 0x0646
script: arabic
syntax: w which means: word
category: .:Base, R:Strong R2L, b:Arabic
to input: type "C-x 8 RET 646" or "C-x 8 RET ARABIC LETTER NOON"
buffer code: #xD9 #x86
file code: #xD9 #x86 (encoded by coding system utf-8-unix)
display: by this font (glyph code):
mac-ct:-*-Scheherazade New-medium-normal-normal-*-27-*-*-*-p-0-iso10646-1 (#x436)
Character code properties: customize what to show
name: ARABIC LETTER NOON
general-category: Lo (Letter, Other)
decomposition: (1606) ('ن')
There are text properties here:
fontified t
[back]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
On the shadda between them, with my Emacs acting like it's a separate
character (so I get a cursor between the nún and the heh, razor thin as if it
were a unicode thin-space or something):
position: 11199 of 92599 (12%), column: 15
character: َ (displayed as َ) (codepoint 1614, #o3116, #x64e)
charset: unicode-bmp (Unicode Basic Multilingual Plane (U+0000..U+FFFF))
code point in charset: 0x064E
script: arabic
syntax: w which means: word
category: ^:Combining, b:Arabic
to input: type "C-x 8 RET 64e" or "C-x 8 RET ARABIC FATHA"
buffer code: #xD9 #x8E
file code: #xD9 #x8E (encoded by coding system utf-8-unix)
display: composed to form "َّ" (see below)
Composed with the following character(s) "ّ" using this font:
mac-ct:-*-Scheherazade New-medium-normal-normal-*-27-*-*-*-p-0-iso10646-1
by these glyphs:
[0 1 0 1634 0 -1 7 30 -19 [0 0 1]]
with these character(s):
ّ (#x651) ARABIC SHADDA
Character code properties: customize what to show
name: ARABIC FATHA
old-name: ARABIC FATHAH
general-category: Mn (Mark, Nonspacing)
decomposition: (1614) ('َ')
There are text properties here:
fontified t
[back]
--
John Wiegley GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F
http://newartisans.com 60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* bug#66503: 29.1; Problem rendering Arabic diacriticals
2023-10-13 6:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-10-13 17:04 ` John Wiegley
@ 2023-10-14 5:19 ` John Wiegley
2023-10-14 6:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-10-14 16:30 ` Stefan Kangas
1 sibling, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: John Wiegley @ 2023-10-14 5:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: 66503
>>>>> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>> \ayat{زيرا مُجاهِدينِ کَعبِۀ فِينَا
>> به بِشارَتِ لَنَهْدِيَنَّهُمْ سُبُلَنَا
>> مَسرور اند}
Hi Eli,
I have found a workaround: By typing “shadda followed by fatha” instead of
“fatha followed by shadda”, my Emacs renders it correctly. Here are the two
different lines:
لَنَهْدِيَنَّهُمْ
لَنَهْدِيَنَّهُمْ
In Mellel these are both rendered the same, but (my) Emacs treats them quite
differently.
--
John Wiegley GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F
http://newartisans.com 60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* bug#66503: 29.1; Problem rendering Arabic diacriticals
2023-10-14 5:19 ` John Wiegley
@ 2023-10-14 6:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-10-14 8:56 ` Alan Third
2023-10-14 16:30 ` Stefan Kangas
1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2023-10-14 6:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: John Wiegley; +Cc: 66503
> From: John Wiegley <johnw@gnu.org>
> Cc: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 22:19:52 -0700
>
> I have found a workaround: By typing “shadda followed by fatha” instead of
> “fatha followed by shadda”, my Emacs renders it correctly. Here are the two
> different lines:
>
> لَنَهْدِيَنَّهُمْ
> لَنَهْدِيَنَّهُمْ
>
> In Mellel these are both rendered the same, but (my) Emacs treats them quite
> differently.
Both lines render identically here. I think the conclusion is that
the macOS text-shaping engine doesn't sort the combining characters
before rendering them, which is what shaping engines are expected to
do. However, I don't consider myself an expert on this, so maybe
raise this issue on some forum where the development of the macOS
shaper is discussed?
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* bug#66503: 29.1; Problem rendering Arabic diacriticals
2023-10-14 6:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2023-10-14 8:56 ` Alan Third
0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Alan Third @ 2023-10-14 8:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: 66503, johnw, mituharu
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1202 bytes --]
On Sat, Oct 14, 2023 at 09:57:48AM +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > From: John Wiegley <johnw@gnu.org>
> > Cc: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> > Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2023 22:19:52 -0700
> >
> > I have found a workaround: By typing “shadda followed by fatha” instead of
> > “fatha followed by shadda”, my Emacs renders it correctly. Here are the two
> > different lines:
> >
> > لَنَهْدِيَنَّهُمْ
> > لَنَهْدِيَنَّهُمْ
> >
> > In Mellel these are both rendered the same, but (my) Emacs treats them quite
> > differently.
>
> Both lines render identically here. I think the conclusion is that
> the macOS text-shaping engine doesn't sort the combining characters
> before rendering them, which is what shaping engines are expected to
> do. However, I don't consider myself an expert on this, so maybe
> raise this issue on some forum where the development of the macOS
> shaper is discussed?
FWIW, on my ancient version of macOS I see these looking the same too,
and they seem to match John's original correct screenshot. My own
screenshot attached.
It could be a difference between the NS port and the Mac port, or
perhaps its a regression in macOS.
--
Alan Third
[-- Attachment #2: Screenshot 2023-10-14 at 09.49.54.png --]
[-- Type: application/octet-stream, Size: 56586 bytes --]
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* bug#66503: 29.1; Problem rendering Arabic diacriticals
2023-10-14 5:19 ` John Wiegley
2023-10-14 6:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2023-10-14 16:30 ` Stefan Kangas
1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Kangas @ 2023-10-14 16:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: John Wiegley, Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: 66503
John Wiegley <johnw@gnu.org> writes:
> I have found a workaround: By typing “shadda followed by fatha” instead of
> “fatha followed by shadda”, my Emacs renders it correctly. Here are the two
> different lines:
>
> لَنَهْدِيَنَّهُمْ
> لَنَهْدِيَنَّهُمْ
>
> In Mellel these are both rendered the same, but (my) Emacs treats them quite
> differently.
FWIW, I see the same here: the above lines are rendered differently in
Emacs, but in the same way in the default macOS Notes application.
In GNU Emacs 30.0.50 (build 7, x86_64-apple-darwin21.6.0, NS
appkit-2113.60 Version 12.7 (Build 21G816)) of 2023-10-10 built on
Newton.local
Repository revision: b4b80fcab8891e1221323fefd0e69be217044bf4
Repository branch: master
Windowing system distributor 'Apple', version 10.3.2113
System Description: macOS 12.7
Configured using:
'configure 'CPPFLAGS=-I/usr/local/opt/llvm/include
-I/usr/local/opt/libffi/include' 'LDFLAGS=-L/usr/local/opt/llvm/lib
-L/usr/local/opt/libffi/lib''
Configured features:
ACL GIF GMP GNUTLS JPEG JSON LCMS2 LIBXML2 MODULES NOTIFY KQUEUE NS
PDUMPER PNG SQLITE3 THREADS TIFF TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS TREE_SITTER WEBP
XIM ZLIB
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2023-10-14 16:30 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 12+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2023-10-12 17:52 bug#66503: 29.1; Problem rendering Arabic diacriticals John Wiegley
2023-10-12 19:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-10-12 19:30 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-10-12 20:40 ` John Wiegley
2023-10-13 6:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-10-13 17:04 ` John Wiegley
2023-10-14 5:19 ` John Wiegley
2023-10-14 6:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-10-14 8:56 ` Alan Third
2023-10-14 16:30 ` Stefan Kangas
2023-10-12 20:39 ` Alan Third
2023-10-13 6:21 ` Eli Zaretskii
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