From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#13775: 24.3.50; Omissions in documentation for crash reporting Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 11:24:04 +0200 Message-ID: <83k3q0n1l7.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87bobei0tx.fsf@yandex.ru> <837gm1oa18.fsf@gnu.org> <5126CA8B.6040705@yandex.ru> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1361525093 15748 80.91.229.3 (22 Feb 2013 09:24:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 09:24:53 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 13775@debbugs.gnu.org To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Feb 22 10:25:15 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1U8osS-0001RD-B8 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 10:25:12 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51084 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1U8os5-0002BS-Nm for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 04:24:49 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:35547) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1U8os1-0002BI-EU for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 04:24:47 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1U8orx-00071w-Cx for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 04:24:45 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:38276) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1U8orx-00071s-9H for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 04:24:41 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U8otG-0006iC-A6 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 04:26:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 09:26:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 13775 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 13775-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B13775.136152512725755 (code B ref 13775); Fri, 22 Feb 2013 09:26:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 13775) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Feb 2013 09:25:27 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43740 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U8osh-0006hL-1X for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 04:25:27 -0500 Original-Received: from mtaout20.012.net.il ([80.179.55.166]:50518) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U8ose-0006hC-Cp for 13775@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 04:25:26 -0500 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout20.012.net.il by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MIM00A007D0MN00@a-mtaout20.012.net.il> for 13775@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 11:23:45 +0200 (IST) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MIM00ATR7FL54B0@a-mtaout20.012.net.il>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 11:23:45 +0200 (IST) In-reply-to: <5126CA8B.6040705@yandex.ru> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:71635 Archived-At: > Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 05:31:55 +0400 > From: Dmitry Gutov > CC: 13775@debbugs.gnu.org > > > There's no way we can teach everybody the basics of GNU-style > > configure scripts, including how to discover the available switches > > and override compiler and linker options. You need to learn that\ > > If by discovering switches you mean calling ./configure --help, then it > wasn't my problem. I meant both the switches of configure and the compiler/linker switches and options. > The ./configure --help output tells how to override switches in general, > my complaint is about insufficient detail. Is the "Some influential > environment variables" part provided by autoconf or somesuch? I don't understand the question. The relevant part of the help text is this: Some influential environment variables: CC C compiler command CFLAGS C compiler flags LDFLAGS linker flags, e.g. -L if you have libraries in a nonstandard directory LIBS libraries to pass to the linker, e.g. -l CPPFLAGS (Objective) C/C++ preprocessor flags, e.g. -I if you have headers in a nonstandard directory CPP C preprocessor XMKMF Path to xmkmf, Makefile generator for X Window System Use these variables to override the choices made by `configure' or to help it to find libraries and programs with nonstandard names/locations. Which part(s) of this are unclear? In any case, this is a standard text shown by every configure script out there, so if you think it should be clarified, please complain to the Autoconf developers. > >> 1. Calling `xbacktrace' requires src/.gdbinit to be loaded. It > >> a) requires the user to run gdb exactly from src/ (not `gdb src/emacs'), > > > > The file etc/DEBUG tells you that at the beginning: > > > > ** When you debug Emacs with GDB, you should start it in the directory > > where the executable was made. That directory has a .gdbinit file > > that defines various "user-defined" commands for debugging Emacs. > > (These commands are described below under "Examining Lisp object > > values" and "Debugging Emacs Redisplay problems".) > > Um, yes, I read that. Maybe I should've skipped this part of the > complaint. But is this exact wording ("the directory where the > executable was made") important? If it just said "./src", that would be > more obvious. I added that (revision 111290 on the emacs-24 branch). > >> b) requires them to modify the `auto-load safe-path', or that .gdbinit > >> is ignored. > > > > This "feature" entered GDB only recently. Versions of GDB before 7.5 > > don't need that, and will barf if you use this command. I don't see > > any reasonable way of dealing with this without confusing newbies even > > more (while veteran GDB users already know how to negotiate this > > obstacle). > > If the feature isn't considered for removal, this argument will become > less and less important over time. And the odds of a newbie being > confused by safe-path will approach 100%. But GDB already tells you how to allow .gdbinit to be auto-loaded, and also points to the GDB manual. If the text displayed by GDB is not clear or confusing, I suggest to report that to GDB maintainers. > I'm not specifically asking to list the exact commands or ~/.gdbinit > contents to work around safe-path. Maybe just mention the feature and, > optionally, suggest consulting GDB manual, if that isn't obvious > already? I added that to etc/DEBUG. > But specifying exactly what to do if GDB version is >= 7.5 > would also work. That's hard to do, because the solution depends on the end-user's preferences regarding security and on the degree of their machine's exposure to other users and to the outside world. The GDB manual discusses the possible solutions, so a pointer to it will allow the user to make up her mind. > >> a) Do I set the variable when calling `make', or do I have to re-run > >> ./configure? Not obvious, the answer is "the latter". > > > > Actually, both will work. > > Not exactly. > > 'CFLAGS="-g3" ./configure' works. > 'CFLAGS="-g3" make' doesn't. > > 'make CFLAGS="-g3"' does work, but AFAIK that's not the usual way of > binding an environment variable value. CFLAGS is a Make variable. Make normally initializes all its variables by looking at the environment. But 'CFLAGS="-g3" make' doesn't export the value of CFLAGS for Make to see it, it only inserts CFLAGS into the shell's own environment. That is why the command 'CFLAGS="-g3" make' doesn't work, while 'make CFLAGS="-g3"' does. This is all standard shell and Make stuff, I don't think it's reasonable to expect Emacs documentation to teach all that. > I think "compile without optimizations" or "compile for debugging" is a > sufficiently common special case to warrant listing the recommended > command somewhere in etc/DEBUG. That will take a few lines at the most. It's already there, it just didn't mention the -O0 option explicitly; I added that. (Again, this is a basic compiler option, not something specific to Emacs.)