From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#30241: Emacs 26.0.91: "Generalized variables" are not defined. Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2018 18:00:43 +0200 Message-ID: <83inb31pp0.fsf@gnu.org> References: <20180124200652.GA4493@ACM> <83h8r8ln7u.fsf@gnu.org> <41654c7c-2d8d-44ec-a5c4-dd12014b7a9e@default> <83o9lfk2sy.fsf@gnu.org> <20180210215841.GB4537@ACM> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1518364832 8759 195.159.176.226 (11 Feb 2018 16:00:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2018 16:00:32 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 30241@debbugs.gnu.org To: Alan Mackenzie Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Feb 11 17:00:28 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eku36-0001BS-0p for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2018 17:00:16 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53817 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eku56-0003sD-Sn for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2018 11:02:20 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:41511) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eku4r-0003qd-TC for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2018 11:02:06 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eku4o-0003eB-0n for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2018 11:02:05 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:58837) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eku4n-0003dw-Tc for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2018 11:02:01 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eku4n-0002Rb-K4 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2018 11:02:01 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2018 16:02:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 30241 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 30241-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B30241.15183648689314 (code B ref 30241); Sun, 11 Feb 2018 16:02:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 30241) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Feb 2018 16:01:08 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38498 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eku3w-0002Q9-HC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2018 11:01:08 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:49667) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eku3u-0002PY-VG for 30241@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2018 11:01:07 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eku3m-0002Kv-0k for 30241@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2018 11:01:01 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:52504) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eku3l-0002KX-Sw; Sun, 11 Feb 2018 11:00:57 -0500 Original-Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4999 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1eku3l-0002AT-C4; Sun, 11 Feb 2018 11:00:57 -0500 In-reply-to: <20180210215841.GB4537@ACM> (message from Alan Mackenzie on Sat, 10 Feb 2018 21:58:41 +0000) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:143142 Archived-At: > Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2018 21:58:41 +0000 > Cc: Drew Adams , 30241@debbugs.gnu.org > From: Alan Mackenzie > > I've read https://www.cs.cmu.edu/Groups/AI/html/cltl/clm/node80.html, > and found it clear indeed. However it was also long. After reading it, > the Elisp sections on generalised variables make much more sense. > > This suggests that these Elisp sections contain the material, but are > not suitable for readers who don't already understand generalised > variables. > > In that CL page, a generalised variable is effectively defined as > something you can use `setf' on within the first three paragraphs. In > the elisp sections, that identification is not present in the opening > paragraphs - there is no definition on that opening page. The first > sub-page does not define a generalised variable as something you can use > setf on - it merely says setf is a way to access one. But that > definition needs to be in the top level page, and it needs to be clear > that it _is_ a definition. It seems strange to me to define something in terms of its uses, but if people think this is better than the other way around, I don't mind. Can you propose how to change what we have now to include what you think should be there? > The CL page gives a complete list of forms setf will work with. The > elisp page merely gives a list, without it being clear whether that list > is complete or not. It's supposed to be a complete list, but if someone knows of other forms, let them speak up. Thanks.