From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#22564: Fundamental mode isn't fundamental enough. Date: Sat, 07 May 2022 09:30:46 +0300 Message-ID: <83ilqhzwfd.fsf@gnu.org> References: <20160205125559.GC7727@acm.fritz.box> <20160205215301.GG7727@acm.fritz.box> <87ee1isi8r.fsf@gnus.org> <83h7697p7b.fsf@gnu.org> <83h7664kmg.fsf@gnu.org> <83k0b0356u.fsf@gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="26939"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: rgm@gnu.org, johnw@gnu.org, 22564@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, acm@muc.de, larsi@gnus.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat May 07 08:32:33 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nnDzU-0006rV-JY for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 07 May 2022 08:32:32 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44556 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nnDzT-0006Kr-0n for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 07 May 2022 02:32:31 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:46486) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nnDz0-0006Kc-PW for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 07 May 2022 02:32:02 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:56355) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nnDz0-0001EW-FP for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 07 May 2022 02:32:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nnDz0-0000mh-5k for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 07 May 2022 02:32:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 07 May 2022 06:32:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 22564 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 22564-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B22564.16519050762960 (code B ref 22564); Sat, 07 May 2022 06:32:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 22564) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 May 2022 06:31:16 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50252 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nnDyF-0000lf-OB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 07 May 2022 02:31:16 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:53074) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nnDyE-0000lT-Ci for 22564@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 07 May 2022 02:31:14 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:34022) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nnDy8-00011T-94; Sat, 07 May 2022 02:31:08 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=+jlvsn8M4RrNITc8BanOPzfTIIIbmvoU94GZESqyb1U=; b=eNvvq7zl2jv9 UxCTob615pgEBadUppzZkQydnMgcXy4Mq+nN62qLQ6s+XttVH9Ui6dstIobzGWzoET0EOCunPbrep DyNZhYcztjYtQOv/gKQTrzqZuyWZNhPndV7eTvMyOYReFOKAZ7dp9TuBHL9vkXfsZWsDtVha/EwWG 4NjbI9D0RuBuoIh1N9X8UDtqPPXdGe5TIIjovJOa1rutrVdvuDiuxdChZEKoPeVAK3ue37Wi1ElPV OD1J+Rvbd7TSkRZh5Ty2jt5xeEphLEkrlyWRm2TSxyw4WbJmMYYml+u7lUZD7zWOCfSzOisLcv1Kn XIwsY9SQQX4tUyaMqrC8mQ==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=1543 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nnDxw-0002QJ-M2; Sat, 07 May 2022 02:30:57 -0400 In-Reply-To: (message from Richard Stallman on Fri, 06 May 2022 19:20:54 -0400) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:231555 Archived-At: > From: Richard Stallman > Cc: rgm@gnu.org, johnw@gnu.org, 22564@debbugs.gnu.org, > monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, acm@muc.de, larsi@gnus.org > Date: Fri, 06 May 2022 19:20:54 -0400 > > > As a simple example, try this in fundamental mode, on an empty line: > > > C-u 10 SPC C-u 10 x RET > > As far as I could see, it did not change anything. > So I tried again in emacs -Q, and I saw it indented the > following line. Are you customizing the command bound to RET in your init files? Indenting the following line is the expected default behavior, yes. > > Nevertheless, if we describe better what the newline and similar > > characters do in electric-indent-mode, that would cover Fundamental as > > well, > > If the description of thoe characters' default behavior is concrete enough, > I think it would do the job. All I can offer to say is what I said here: > > I think it is better to say that this mode > > automatically indents the current line according to the context (the > > surrounding lines) and the rules of the major mode. > Maybe. But I do think the term "reindent" needs to be explined > somewhere in the Emacs manual. If all we need to say is that reindent means to remove any indentation and then indent the line according to context and major mode's rules, that's simple enough.