From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#15984: 24.3; Problem with combining characters in attachment filename Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 16:50:44 +0200 Message-ID: <83haav6z3v.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83iovc8eaq.fsf@gnu.org> <83a9gn8yoz.fsf@gnu.org> <831u1z8twg.fsf@gnu.org> <83r49z78jp.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1385736737 23203 80.91.229.3 (29 Nov 2013 14:52:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 14:52:17 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 15984@debbugs.gnu.org To: nisse@lysator.liu.se (Niels =?UTF-8?Q?M=C3=B6ller?=) Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Nov 29 15:52:21 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VmPQa-0000x6-Ip for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2013 15:52:20 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47677 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VmPQa-000845-8L for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2013 09:52:20 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:54301) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VmPQS-0007w9-7S for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2013 09:52:17 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VmPQJ-0005rz-0H for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2013 09:52:11 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:35916) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VmPQI-0005rp-Si for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2013 09:52:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VmPQI-0008IT-5n for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2013 09:52:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 14:52:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15984 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 15984-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15984.138573666431815 (code B ref 15984); Fri, 29 Nov 2013 14:52:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 15984) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Nov 2013 14:51:04 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49935 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VmPPM-0008H4-59 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2013 09:51:04 -0500 Original-Received: from mtaout22.012.net.il ([80.179.55.172]:43772) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VmPPJ-0008GU-7T for 15984@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2013 09:51:02 -0500 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout22.012.net.il by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MX100K0053LRM00@a-mtaout22.012.net.il> for 15984@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2013 16:50:54 +0200 (IST) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MX100KBN58TR710@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Fri, 29 Nov 2013 16:50:54 +0200 (IST) In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:81099 Archived-At: > From: nisse@lysator.liu.se (Niels Möller) > Cc: 15984@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 13:41:01 +0100 > > Today, to remove the dots from an "ä" character, I'll have to delete the > complete "ä" character and insert a new "a" character. Not if they were originally two or more characters which were composed into one. In that case, we let the user edit them separately. > I think this "atomic" handling is the desired behaviour in many > cases. For "ä", this is arguable. For more complex script, this is definitely wrong: users want to be able to edit each component separately. > But if you have a complex sequence of unicode combining characters, > I agree there's some need to be able to edit it. Maybe put point on > the character and invoke edit-char to go in some special mode which > explodes the usually "atomic" character into smaller pieces. We already do that, but if the characters were combined, and Emacs doesn't even know they were separate to begin with, it cannot do that, can it? > > You are mixing display issues with editing issues and with how > > characters are represented internally in an Emacs buffer. > > I think it's confusing for users if the units of text which forward-char > skips over, do not correspond to the units matched by "." in > isearch-forward-regexp. What happens under the hood with matching and what is shown to the user doesn't have to be identical. In fact, it cannot be identical. Again, please don't mix internal implementation and UI, they cannot be possibly identical anyway, because there are conflicting user requirements in different situations. > My suggested internal representation seems to be a natural way to get > this correspondence right, at the cost of some memory (or lots of > complexity in reducing memory usage). It only seems to be that. Real life is much more messy, and defeats such simplicity on many levels. > Now I've also reproduced it on the same machine, without my normal Gnus > setup getting in the way. I start emacs with > > $ rm -rf ~/tmp/home/ && mkdir ~/tmp/home/ && HOME=$HOME/tmp/home emacs -nw -Q -l bug.el > > where bug.el contains > > (setq gnus-init-file nil) > (setq gnus-nntp-server nil) > (gnus-no-server) > > Then create the group with G d, pointing out the spool-like directory, > enter the group (RET), view the message (RET), try to write out the > attachment ("o" on the attachment button). Still crashes for me. Thanks.