From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#67003: 26.3; (elisp) Basic Char Syntax: Show octal and Unicode names as well, for chars Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2023 18:30:54 +0200 Message-ID: <83h6luzy69.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83wmurz3hf.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="26709"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 67003-done@debbugs.gnu.org To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Nov 09 17:31:45 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1r17wV-0006lW-SV for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 09 Nov 2023 17:31:44 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r17wD-0001rR-WE; Thu, 09 Nov 2023 11:31:26 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r17wC-0001nS-Md for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 09 Nov 2023 11:31:24 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:5::43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r17wC-0007Hh-Dw for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 09 Nov 2023 11:31:24 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1r17wo-0004nS-Il for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 09 Nov 2023 11:32:02 -0500 Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2023 16:32:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: cc-closed 67003 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Mail-Followup-To: 67003@debbugs.gnu.org, eliz@gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com Original-Received: via spool by 67003-done@debbugs.gnu.org id=D67003.169954751618423 (code D ref 67003); Thu, 09 Nov 2023 16:32:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 67003-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Nov 2023 16:31:56 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48606 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1r17wh-0004n5-N8 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Nov 2023 11:31:56 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:42960) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1r17wc-0004mp-NE for 67003-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Nov 2023 11:31:54 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r17vt-0007ES-3s; Thu, 09 Nov 2023 11:31:05 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=nn3OAZfvGQSgqPn+PCKZsh0g3gaXaEZSjEOath7OMbw=; b=YlymEUIbo0A+D5phhkHP GDzMipDhrAyKWU+32t1o6RsIXE6wRtd3y+/cWnKbfVO8yQ0rICChBQQjj9TuA0Qgq1OnK3j96F3QI nGGf7+K0jXFjCVr+b7LKgfnI1NeVYd91zmd+0cqDyJ/IFyVOoAXu6b0ZwLR1H9hNLr0UQD79GNsDV OXSWAmFOaDKKnjhnbhYx/lxEMbjKB5DEOKUsyIGgrxDwoXgN0WBqVpmyHoH43hqzeS4/2t6Py+H5Q pHi8iDL/26Isa2OMWxGNTEuUICkSRfaG7vjSpDQGrrQqrXeh+RIUcIA4mZw4kaEd0SBRmtFKncJEw 325GxCqIufBKmQ==; In-Reply-To: (message from Drew Adams on Thu, 9 Nov 2023 15:54:59 +0000) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:274054 Archived-At: > From: Drew Adams > CC: "67003@debbugs.gnu.org" <67003@debbugs.gnu.org> > Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2023 15:54:59 +0000 > > > > 2. But show also the octal digits. > > > Show where and how? And why? > > Where we show the ?\ char representation, its > decimal equivalent (⇒), char name/description (in > a comment), and key description (in the comment). > > IOW, where we specify these chars that have their > own, dedicated escape sequences. > > Why? Because in `General Escape Syntax' we say > that you can use octal char codes. Why not show > the octal values for these chars here? They are shown in the very next subsection. > Why not show the hex values also, as that's what > `insert-char' accepts? Ditto. > `Basic Char Syntax' could also usefully say > something about where you can use escape > sequences - and that's _not_ to interactively > insert such a char. That's a separate issue, but the next section says something about that as well. > > > 3. Show also other names, such as Unicode/ISO names. > > > E.g., say that "vertical tab" is the char that has the ISO name > > > (VT). (And still mention that it's C-k.) > > > > The next subsection, "General Escape Syntax", > > includes this information. > > Not for these specific chars that have dedicated > escape syntaxes, it doesn't. They're specified > only in `Basic Char Syntax'. I don't see the significance. We obviously cannot show all the characters, and it isn't like VT is an important one. It is just an example. > > > IOW, give a little more info, esp. commonly > > > encountered or "official" names for such chars. > > > > I think we already do, but you need to consider the entire section, > > not just its single subsection, which correctly starts with the > > basics, before we proceed with more advanced stuff. > > I don't see that it would be bad to let users know, > here, that what we call "vertical tab" here is also > called "line tabulation". Try inserting that char > using `insert-char' without knowing its Unicode/ISO > name or its hex value - good luck. Lumping too much material in a single subsection is bad from the methodological POV: it makes the subsection more confusing and harder to read. So I don't think we need to do anything with this issue, and I'm therefore closing it.