From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#65913: with-help-window arranges for 'inhibit-read-only' to be set to 't' Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2023 07:53:36 +0300 Message-ID: <83fs3hmk33.fsf@gnu.org> References: <838r9anrmi.fsf@gnu.org> <83v8cem8pu.fsf@gnu.org> <83o7i5nbeq.fsf@gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="8851"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 65913@debbugs.gnu.org, heimeborgia@protonmail.com, stefankangas@gmail.com To: uzibalqa Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Sep 14 06:55:28 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qgeNz-00025M-DR for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 14 Sep 2023 06:55:27 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qgeNX-0008TV-7U; Thu, 14 Sep 2023 00:54:59 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qgeNW-0008TI-31 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Sep 2023 00:54:58 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:5::43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qgeNV-0006cQ-Pp for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Sep 2023 00:54:57 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qgeNa-0000JI-CC for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Sep 2023 00:55:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2023 04:55:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 65913 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix Original-Received: via spool by 65913-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B65913.16946672491130 (code B ref 65913); Thu, 14 Sep 2023 04:55:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 65913) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Sep 2023 04:54:09 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36473 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qgeMi-0000IA-Ut for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 14 Sep 2023 00:54:09 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:48942) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qgeMd-0000Hb-2F for 65913@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 14 Sep 2023 00:54:06 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qgeMP-0006PK-Rs; Thu, 14 Sep 2023 00:53:49 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=KGNpnjJ//rY9zX938W3QQxr+FQbuosj4xgnrqOCmMlE=; b=pXfMAkp+0v7f AMPRhMT8H9GtABvZunk/e7iBHfCXaHUQgYCc2aznzL2k1oomOfiWTaVjg50HQmzTyw18h7AVAtZOr qkPV9FDR/zkSgijsJmRhbpCwl/pFXjcqPJguKLS/X6eRKjKCDbJCuVu2IjxqkfD7TT9/8M2qtvOas daOVbGg52hv8Jix/D3OgHZR+jGSXIQcMUdckdd/p7/mW9wca6yCmmjLZFe/soejhUhOlJP3AJ/0YE 7dS0XAKlelbp46EP5YDh2SPvwo2kU5g+g123Xpwsj4YzlT9iaXm17jwEw4DattHXvJ563UachpKzU cT4kDnfG5of8KnzuHCF0ew==; In-Reply-To: (message from uzibalqa on Wed, 13 Sep 2023 19:16:52 +0000) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:270389 Archived-At: > Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2023 19:16:52 +0000 > From: uzibalqa > Cc: Heime , 65913@debbugs.gnu.org, stefankangas@gmail.com > > The purpose of the docstring should be expanded. And if using the manual > is required, please provide that information from the self documentation. We do that when needed, but not in this case. There's no reason to mention inhibit-read-only when we document with-help-window, because with-help-window is not about read-only buffers. > I disagree with the notion that working with emacs should be hard. So do we. But this issue has nothing to do with how hard it is to work with Emacs. You simply looked for the information you were after in the wrong place, when the right place should have been pretty obvious for someone who writes Lisp programs: the ELisp manual. > With most people I communicate with, it is generally agreed that > using the language is hard. It is the solution that I disagree > with. Because the solution that I am usually given is to endure the > time it takes for everyone to learn it. The solution you were suggested was to look for information about read-only buffers where read-only buffers are described, either in the ELisp manual or in the doc string of the command which toggles the read-only state of the buffer. In general, there's no need to mention in each and every doc string that to learn about some subject you should read the manual where that subject is described. This is trivial, and having to repeat that everywhere will just bloat Emacs for no good reason. Consulting the documentation is one of the first lessons that each Emacs user learns, and resisting that lesson is not recommended.