From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#46621: Copy line Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 17:43:28 +0200 Message-ID: <83eeh8w1jz.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87tuq99ova.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87y2fkrypp.fsf@gnus.org> <87ft1qq4b6.fsf@gnus.org> <87o8ge8ugr.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87im6lls1r.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87sg5o8nk9.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="16072"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 46621@debbugs.gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org, rms@gnu.org, mardani29@yahoo.es To: Juri Linkov Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Feb 22 16:51:31 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lEDUg-00041s-Mw for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 16:51:30 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50704 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lEDUf-0000JY-On for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 10:51:29 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:42616) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lEDNS-0001ZE-20 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 10:44:02 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:45694) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lEDNR-0006Ye-Q8 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 10:44:01 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lEDNR-0000fC-Nm for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 10:44:01 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 15:44:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 46621 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 46621-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B46621.16140086392535 (code B ref 46621); Mon, 22 Feb 2021 15:44:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 46621) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Feb 2021 15:43:59 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57240 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lEDNP-0000eo-3B for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 10:43:59 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:52966) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lEDNN-0000eY-8F for 46621@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 10:43:57 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:56682) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lEDNH-0006UA-Ok; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 10:43:51 -0500 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:2308 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1lEDN6-0006g5-0C; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 10:43:40 -0500 In-Reply-To: <87sg5o8nk9.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (message from Juri Linkov on Mon, 22 Feb 2021 11:07:58 +0200) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:200588 Archived-At: > From: Juri Linkov > Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 11:07:58 +0200 > Cc: 46621@debbugs.gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org, mardani29@yahoo.es > > > > It's not realistic to change the meaning of the numeric arg to C-y. > > > People already use the current meaning for decades. > > > > We could inquire of the users to see what they think about the issue. > > Every once in a while the lack of such fundamental command sparks very > long discussions how to reinvent the wheel. Some recent examples: Thanks for the links. However, I don't think they add anything substantial to this discussion. For starters, many posters there just wanted to know how many keystrokes it takes in Emacs to copy a line, and some even said they wanted to compare the result with Vim. They don't necessarily ask for a command or a single short key sequence to do that, at least not in every post. More importantly, I see no description of the situations where such a copy is needed, so it is hard to analyze reason about the necessity. For example, perhaps some of the posters wanted this because they are unaware of some existing Emacs features which can do the job efficiently enough. This is why I asked here to describe the use cases, i.e. the situations where such a command would be needed. I didn't get any answers to that, AFAIR. Just one person posted his experiences. Without knowing what situations necessitate such a command, I don't see how we will be able to reason whether the needs justify adding the command. And reason we must, because we cannot possibly implement feature after feature just because someone asks about it on stackexchange. > The proposed tiny 8-line patch was intended to help people avoid > wasting their time on such trivial things. Yes, this command is relatively small. But we must have some criteria for adding new commands and features, because otherwise we will add 8 lines, then another 10 lines, then 5 more, etc. etc. These things add up, and that's even before you consider the supporting docs and other consequences. Bottom line, if we want to consider this command, we should somehow come up with the relevant use cases, and then weigh them against the added complexity and maintenance costs. I therefore urge people who think they know these details to please speak up and contribute to this discussion.