From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2022 14:29:58 +0300 Message-ID: <83edwqkqix.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> <878rn1p7oz.fsf@jonreeve.com> <8335d8o6ow.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kpfe1.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83o7vwmlet.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi4p6se.fsf@jonreeve.com> <831qsrn1im.fsf@gnu.org> <6fb0e08e80e292e6c7a0@heytings.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="32887"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, 57531@debbugs.gnu.org To: Gregory Heytings Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Sep 05 14:11:46 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oVAx7-0008Mz-H2 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 14:11:45 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:34770 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oVAx6-0004fM-IH for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 08:11:44 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:42966) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oVAJi-0007lv-3K for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 07:31:02 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:57896) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oVAJh-0001FL-Qp for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 07:31:01 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVAJh-0005vt-MG for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 07:31:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2022 11:31:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 57531 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: moreinfo Original-Received: via spool by 57531-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B57531.166237744222255 (code B ref 57531); Mon, 05 Sep 2022 11:31:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2022 11:30:42 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46595 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVAJL-0005d0-1u for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 07:30:42 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:33206) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVAJJ-0005MV-DM for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 07:30:37 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:49428) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oVAJD-00015V-Pc; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 07:30:31 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=PecOD8bblQWDsaSrub4+ek747XydyzRnyBtddFj2Lz4=; b=mxDS0LN4DR16 BgDhfNOHjO1RmVzZN4bOOtMP+L6UADCKpz+dD/9r03cEgFpAFtmWShIll9ThtN+eyRZU/YkRYsaKU nVgKk+RMuFO3xkBBhnFZoCuvKpKVF3b7IvdO4ash3iw0gRjfxOvsOC68WxoZHbzY8S9df7LXw97Jw JD7ZQ2B4orQe3vA/9HA9dZ0ueOvMWfaorJ2dEBS/RF+1ZVE9nYx9kvDNQYZ2khCidsE3p79lMBwUy K8zG5XBZNuARnyHc4U6NJn9SEiKzfqQ9CW2FnyNmIqrUZfCcvT7t0QvBHGpyx9cFYRwfDtlLGYV9O sly27Qa8VJSp+69ZSt8zlg==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=2470 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oVAJ2-0001kr-8z; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 07:30:31 -0400 In-Reply-To: <6fb0e08e80e292e6c7a0@heytings.org> (message from Gregory Heytings on Sun, 04 Sep 2022 23:35:37 +0000) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:241549 Archived-At: > Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2022 23:35:37 +0000 > From: Gregory Heytings > cc: Jonathan Reeve , 57531@debbugs.gnu.org > > >> `("eo" "Esperanto" utf-8)' > > > > That's only correct for glibc systems, though, as I already explained. I > > found no authoritative place on the Internet which would mandate that > > the Esperanto locale should use or prefer UTF-8 as its encoding. > > > > I don't think it's possible to find a truly authoritative source of > information about an artificial language. One semi-authoritative source > is Bertilo Wennergren, who is (according to Wikipedia) a member of the > Esperanto Academy and "holds the post of director of the Academy's General > Dictionary section". He appears to be the expert on that matter (namely > computer encodings for Esperanto), and explains on his website that: > > Latino 3 is made for Esperanto and for the Galician, Maltese and Turkish > languages. However, few computer programs support Latin 3, and some bodies > have even directly discouraged the use of Latin 3. The Turks currently > prefer the character code Latin 5 (ISO 8859-9) . Esperantists also > currently prefer and should prefer Unicode instead of Latin 3. [1, > translation from Google] > > He also gives instructions on how to configure a GNU/Linux distribution > for Esperanto: > > To be able to use Esperanto well in Linux, it is necessary that the system > uses a Unicode locale. Fortunately, more or less all Linux distributions > currently use Unicode locales by default. To check which character code > your system's locale uses, type the following command: "locale charmap". > If the answer appears "UTF-8" (that is the most commonly used code > representation of Unicode), then everything about character code in your > locale is already in order. [2, translation from Google] If we were designing support for this locale today, we'd probably have used UTF-8 as its default encoding. But this is not the case: this locale with its data exists for many years, and I'd like to avoid changing the default encoding if a better solution exists. Especially since at this point it is not yet clear why this doesn't work on OP's system, given the fact that locale.alias should have told Emacs what encoding to use, before falling back on what we have in language-info-alist. See also my other message. > So it seems safer to assume that the coding system is UTF-8 when the > locale is "eo" (which IIUC is what the above suggested change does), and > to expect users who would not like that default to add > > (prefer-coding-system 'iso-latin-3) > > in their init file, than to assume ISO-8859-3 when the locale is "eo" > (which IIUC is what Emacs currently does), and to expect users who do not > like that default to add It is not clear to me yet that we need to change the current assumption, since on well-configured system the correct encoding should be stated in locale.alias, in which Emacs looks before it falls back to language-info-alist.