From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#65902: 29.0.92; emacsclient-mail.desktop fails due to complicated escaping Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2023 08:10:58 +0300 Message-ID: <83edj1mja5.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83ttrym8jx.fsf@gnu.org> <83led9nay9.fsf@gnu.org> <66a6c09e-3b61-d913-5638-4c804fb826f6@gmail.com> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="11637"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 65902@debbugs.gnu.org, sbaugh@janestreet.com, sbaugh@catern.com To: Jim Porter Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Sep 14 07:12:29 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qgeeS-0002od-EO for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 14 Sep 2023 07:12:28 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qgee3-0005Dt-As; Thu, 14 Sep 2023 01:12:03 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qgedz-00055C-37 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Sep 2023 01:11:59 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:5::43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qgedx-0001I4-M7 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Sep 2023 01:11:58 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qgee3-0000tK-1X for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Sep 2023 01:12:03 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2023 05:12:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 65902 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch Original-Received: via spool by 65902-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B65902.16946682923240 (code B ref 65902); Thu, 14 Sep 2023 05:12:03 +0000 Original-Received: (at 65902) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Sep 2023 05:11:32 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36500 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qgedW-0000qA-6T for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 14 Sep 2023 01:11:32 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:36462) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qgedU-0000pq-TW for 65902@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 14 Sep 2023 01:11:29 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qgedH-0001El-EY; Thu, 14 Sep 2023 01:11:16 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=sR6oLOlMwRREl5GogAaCuJ2oalJ5PZ6d995/rbK0DAY=; b=Cr8ukZZJPNCo Ti/pNe+nkyUrKpSUlQhNfpJJdAh3zIUBATlNzZMHIkesFcx3K51j6twHFpXjiQeGsIA9ETSlrty5i L4Mc79Dj8jODRqPZMF5xVxw/tLOfwqoY33ftiPyNS65lEPO/ysMI6Rfbit8UjynneHMei/bFrDPj7 wqYyzfgobyYQXd4JdHFSo24TSOnKNZfaEJky34zIfCcF56ytZLQ+AO5+jt86p52M91NxfC4Cu/ZL/ CbnNfNSQE7fUS9rsTYMxEt+t4yupH3rvth6RVQCy5rEiXMiNojNqBi7iKS8aGGLrFOyaxAzkfSMJT v0HXYrUGwa02yL6Fwi0mWQ==; In-Reply-To: <66a6c09e-3b61-d913-5638-4c804fb826f6@gmail.com> (message from Jim Porter on Wed, 13 Sep 2023 12:33:01 -0700) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:270390 Archived-At: > Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2023 12:33:01 -0700 > Cc: sbaugh@catern.com, 65902@debbugs.gnu.org > From: Jim Porter > > On 9/13/2023 12:13 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > And I don't understand why we need to add any options to Emacs itself, > > btw. The suggestion to have some "symmetry" here was one of the > > reasons that discussion got nowhere. So let's learn from that > > mistake, at least. > > There's a practical benefit to this. If you have $EDITOR set in your > environment to something like "emacsclient --alternate-editor=emacs", > then it would be nice if you could say this: > > $EDITOR --apply some-func arg1 arg2 > > and have it do the same thing whether or not there was already an Emacs > server running. The symmetry between the two commands (plus proper > argument forwarding) would make that work. > > However, if people can't agree, then we could probably drop that part. > To me, it sounds like people *do* agree that this would be good to have > though. People might agree, but I don't. Please consider the perspective. This started as an obscure and rare problem in a desktop file (which we provided solely out of good will, since it really isn't our job to do so, it's the job of downstream distros). The proposed solution was to add a completely new option to emacsclient, with its own special syntax and rules about what can and cannot be done with it. This is already something that should raise brows: how can such an unimportant reason cause us to make such significant changes? We didn't yet finish discussing that nor even had time to understand all the implications (remember: Lars suggested to support several such options, which required another special option), and we already are told that "for symmetry" we should add the same to Emacs. All that where just yesterday there was no need for any new options in either, and if we decided to drop those desktop files from our sources (which I personally am tempted to do every few weeks, due to issues they cause us all the time since their introduction), then even the original need will miraculously disappear into thin air. So this is a classic case of the tail wagging the dog. What about alternative solutions: use a shell script in the desktop files, and delegate to that script to solve the problem with quoting? Had anyone considered this strategy? If not, why not? I would in general prefer not to add any new options to our programs due to this weak reason. Once again: it is not our job to get these desktop files right in every single downstream environment, so let's not make it our problem, certainly not a problem we should solve using such non-trivial solutions.