From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#68246: 30.0.50; Add non-TS mode as extra parent of TS modes Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2024 09:02:25 +0200 Message-ID: <83edekfldq.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83o7dzvrmf.fsf@gnu.org> <838r53vlo5.fsf@gnu.org> <831qavvcbo.fsf@gnu.org> <83a5phskd5.fsf@gnu.org> <83h6joqz0t.fsf@gnu.org> <834jfoq86m.fsf@gnu.org> <831qarrbjx.fsf@gnu.org> <87a5p84nlh.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="17744"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 68246@debbugs.gnu.org, casouri@gmail.com, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca To: =?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_?= =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=A1vora?= Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Jan 14 08:03:31 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rOuWp-0004NG-Pf for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 14 Jan 2024 08:03:31 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rOuWQ-0004Ej-Rd; Sun, 14 Jan 2024 02:03:06 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rOuWN-0004EQ-Ny for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 14 Jan 2024 02:03:03 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:5::43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rOuWN-0004bg-Dd for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 14 Jan 2024 02:03:03 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rOuWM-00057o-20 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 14 Jan 2024 02:03:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2024 07:03:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 68246 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 68246-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B68246.170521577419686 (code B ref 68246); Sun, 14 Jan 2024 07:03:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 68246) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Jan 2024 07:02:54 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41558 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rOuWE-00057R-5t for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Jan 2024 02:02:54 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:50358) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rOuWB-00057D-A8 for 68246@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Jan 2024 02:02:52 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rOuW6-0004Tf-Ia; Sun, 14 Jan 2024 02:02:46 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=wThNZbkq17oJrh7cc+G6aBffguw5c57bW25TMbAGUQ4=; b=dZMsfybSm5JJRIDl8KE5 JpgsFVkUxGTgd2Cd1afupXOk5Eg4rAcaXFLjd+iRgUx8UbN4j3PLKBHlSzcWirGfZT4HM8hJK+8Ro 1b4wrkdILmz+I/83jB5x8CHTDqIcSQO6gHNMBratCgy0mWohDPxG6ta8qzTLnbRsQyOmMgY7hnDKp P4CZOO2kWUpM3DY2JKvTHq6HdvzvNJ5oEw2FiSl1mavaWqBlpd80GOM+uj26m7+aywyAHFt1KXyej iszR9LfrVrmXjxFB7SeK84c+yScR0Vqne6jKRh/+2bjZFcfW4+YBXvOmWEMSaW+e4s0aYXqAP21r5 fnm/+epqhHmAFQ==; In-Reply-To: <87a5p84nlh.fsf@gmail.com> (message from =?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_?= =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=A1vora?= on Sun, 14 Jan 2024 03:10:02 +0000) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:278183 Archived-At: > From: João Távora > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Stefan Monnier > , 68246@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2024 03:10:02 +0000 > > Yuan Fu writes: > > > observe what breaks? Then Joao can either say “I told you” or happily > > found out that this patch works ok. > > Those are not the only two outcomes. It might work OK and not break > anything [*]. > > However it is not easy to quantify confused users looking to understand > the new meaning of things in dir-locals.el. Or users wondering why they > need to set Eglot variables in both 'c++-mode-hook' and > 'c++-ts-mode-hook' when all they see is 'c++-mode' in > 'eglot-server-programs'. Those users will hopefully submit bug reports or otherwise complain on the Emacs mailing lists, and then we will know. > There are better alternatives to this patch: > > 1. The base modes, which are substantially _already_ in place. They > follow the naming convention -base-mode. After giving more > thought to your earlier objection about derived modes overriding > variables, it doesn't make sense (I can elaborate if you want :-) ). The recommendation is to use base modes where it makes sense, and the installed changes around derived-mode-add-parents don't in any way preclude having a base mode and don't make it harder. But I don't think we should force everyone in this situation to invent a base mode as the sole means for solving this. > 2. Explicitly associating some major modes with languages or file types. > This doesn't seem hard and other further uses like suggesting modes > or packages to a new user based on languages have been proposed. This is IMO a heavier and more thorough change, especially since Emacs doesn't have the notion of "language". This discussion shows that its advantages are not evident, and moreover we don't even have a clear shared view what will that entail. So I think Yuan is right: let's see what happens with what we have on master, and take it from there.