From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#23425: master branch: `message' wrongly corrupts ' to curly quote. Date: Wed, 04 May 2016 20:03:43 +0300 Message-ID: <83d1p1iwls.fsf@gnu.org> References: <7e599cf6-18c3-1633-33d5-e9f4eaa8fe6a@cs.ucla.edu> <20160502191031.GB2048@acm.fritz.box> <83a8k7kv87.fsf@gnu.org> <20160503162716.GB11330@acm.fritz.box> <831t5jkrn2.fsf@gnu.org> <20160503200330.GC11330@acm.fritz.box> <83twidj0tj.fsf@gnu.org> <20160504164849.GA31717@acm.fritz.box> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1462381486 8294 80.91.229.3 (4 May 2016 17:04:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 4 May 2016 17:04:46 +0000 (UTC) Cc: eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 23425@debbugs.gnu.org To: Alan Mackenzie Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed May 04 19:04:33 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ay0Dw-0004D0-Rp for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 04 May 2016 19:04:32 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49123 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ay0Dp-0002eV-VI for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 04 May 2016 13:04:25 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:48223) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ay0Dh-0002Rb-UC for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 04 May 2016 13:04:24 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ay0DW-00059r-5g for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 04 May 2016 13:04:12 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:53978) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ay0DW-00058t-2Q for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 04 May 2016 13:04:06 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ay0DS-0003d8-Ic for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 04 May 2016 13:04:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 04 May 2016 17:04:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 23425 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 23425-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B23425.146238143813944 (code B ref 23425); Wed, 04 May 2016 17:04:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 23425) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 May 2016 17:03:58 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38082 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ay0DN-0003cq-Rn for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 May 2016 13:03:58 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:57170) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ay0DM-0003ce-HE for 23425@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 May 2016 13:03:56 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ay0D7-000534-UB for 23425@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 May 2016 13:03:48 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:52189) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ay0D7-00051o-Rr; Wed, 04 May 2016 13:03:41 -0400 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:2345 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1ay0D1-0006Il-FG; Wed, 04 May 2016 13:03:35 -0400 In-reply-to: <20160504164849.GA31717@acm.fritz.box> (message from Alan Mackenzie on Wed, 4 May 2016 16:48:49 +0000) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:117776 Archived-At: > Date: Wed, 4 May 2016 16:48:49 +0000 > Cc: eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 23425@debbugs.gnu.org > From: Alan Mackenzie > > > > That theory _is_ wrong, certainly amongst Emacs developers. Even in this > > > bug thread, two other people have expressed negative sentiments about > > > this matter. > > > So we have 3 people against that. Is it really enough? > > That's three people in this thread. Over the months, more people have > expressed unhappinness about curly quotes, in the various ways they have > been imposed on us. Yes, I think that is enough. I don't. Please let's wait until 25.1 is released, the only way to change this decision is if we see a lot of complaints about this. > The comments from the other two people have been less than fully > respectful, and at least one of them is not known for making snide > remarks. What does that tell you? That some people don't like this. But we knew that back when it was decided to have this feature. > Put frankly, the curly quote stuff was installed into Emacs without there > being any consensus in favour of it, and was deliberately done in such a > way that it could not be disabled (see below). Not true. If there were no consensus, at least not a wide enough one, this wouldn't have been admitted. The objections were not numerous enough and strong enough to prevent these changes. > > > They're not - they're literal characters. > > > So is %. > > You can escape a % by writing %%. That will consistently be output as %. > There is no comparable form of escape for the quote characters. Yes, there is: use "%s" as the first argument to 'message'. Which is a Good Thing anyway, as we all know. > If it is too late to go into 25.1, can we put a fix into 25.2? I see no reason not to install a change along these lines on master, if the new value is not the default. > And yet again, I suggest `text-quoting-style' should become a > configurable option, giving users the ability to chose how THEY want > messages to be displayed. And I yet again urge you to wait until 25.1 hits the streets, and we see what the Emacs community at large thinks about this.