From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#30393: 24.4; cperl-mode: indentation failure Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2018 18:16:00 +0200 Message-ID: <83d11b1ozj.fsf@gnu.org> References: <20180208152552.GL13340@hodi> <20180209175040.63536.qmail@mail.muc.de> <3331f80a-c5aa-5cb9-8088-0a88888bdaca@yandex.ru> <20180210112654.GA4537@ACM> <8360752gj8.fsf@gnu.org> <20180211124930.GB4515@ACM> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1518365743 21030 195.159.176.226 (11 Feb 2018 16:15:43 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2018 16:15:43 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 30393@debbugs.gnu.org, dgutov@yandex.ru, monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net To: Alan Mackenzie Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Feb 11 17:15:38 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ekuHT-0003JC-AF for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2018 17:15:07 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55371 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ekuJU-0002wL-QU for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2018 11:17:12 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:55293) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ekuJN-0002vu-LQ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2018 11:17:06 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ekuJK-0006Eu-DC for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2018 11:17:05 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:58852) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ekuJK-0006El-8n for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2018 11:17:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ekuJK-0002nE-2k for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2018 11:17:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2018 16:17:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 30393 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 30393-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B30393.151836579010697 (code B ref 30393); Sun, 11 Feb 2018 16:17:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 30393) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Feb 2018 16:16:30 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38516 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ekuIk-0002mP-OY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2018 11:16:30 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:35355) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ekuIi-0002mC-8N for 30393@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2018 11:16:24 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ekuIZ-0005aM-Py for 30393@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2018 11:16:19 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:53508) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ekuIZ-0005aC-LX; Sun, 11 Feb 2018 11:16:15 -0500 Original-Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1032 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1ekuIY-0006gH-TV; Sun, 11 Feb 2018 11:16:15 -0500 In-reply-to: <20180211124930.GB4515@ACM> (message from Alan Mackenzie on Sun, 11 Feb 2018 12:49:30 +0000) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:143146 Archived-At: > Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2018 12:49:30 +0000 > Cc: dgutov@yandex.ru, npostavs@users.sourceforge.net, > monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA, 30393@debbugs.gnu.org > From: Alan Mackenzie > > > This text is not needed. The original text, which you deleted, > > described how to avoid a real problem; if that problem no longer > > exists, we should just delete that text. If that problem does exist > > in some modes, we should leave that text as it was, with a better > > description of what modes are still subject to these problems. > > > But describing something that is no longer done by Emacs is just waste > > of paper. > > Perhaps the proposed fix was somewhat prolix ("long winded"). But, in a > sense, we're providing a new feature, the ability to write syntactically > correct parens. If we don't mention this, people won't notice. > Occasionally somebody will remember the previous restriction, try to > look it up in the manual, and end up puzzled. > > How about a compromise, and replacing those two long paragraphs with a > simple sentence such as: > > From Emacs 27.1, you can write opening parens at column zero without > problems. > > > Overall, I must say I'm confused regarding the purpose of this patch. > > What does it try to accomplish? > > To note that the documented previous restrictions on parens in column 0 > no longer hold. The right place for such stuff is in NEWS. > I suppose we really want to mark this part of the manual as obsolete, > but we've got no mechanism for doing this. Besides, > open-paren-in-column-0-is-defun-start still has _some_ functionality. The variable should have some minimal description with a note that using it nowadays is seldom needed. That should be enough to drive your point home, I think.