From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#40773: newsticker documentation Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 22:14:59 +0300 Message-ID: <83d07qxfws.fsf@gnu.org> References: <20200422155528.ccsjljhamqeaocsd@E15-2016.optimum.net> <87h7x33ggs.fsf@panama> <20200429041745.srdhgypy5v27e3mv@E15-2016.optimum.net> <838sie205k.fsf@gnu.org> <20200429091213.rtyoo537qgccbccz@E15-2016.optimum.net> <83v9lizlcu.fsf@gnu.org> <20200429185554.wd2byg5lksp7ngj5@E15-2016.optimum.net> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="128279"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 40773@debbugs.gnu.org To: Boruch Baum Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Apr 29 21:17:28 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jTsD2-000XFr-3U for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 21:17:28 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52608 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jTsD1-0006uz-58 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 15:17:27 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:43422) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jTsBi-0005iw-Et for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 15:16:09 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jTsBe-0008TR-Ck for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 15:16:06 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:33112) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jTsBd-0008S1-UG for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 15:16:01 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTsBd-0004YG-Pp for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 15:16:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 19:16:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 40773 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 40773-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B40773.158818773317418 (code B ref 40773); Wed, 29 Apr 2020 19:16:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 40773) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Apr 2020 19:15:33 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44637 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTsB6-0004Wg-DN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 15:15:33 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:40072) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jTsB3-0004WS-HS for 40773@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 15:15:26 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:33450) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jTsAy-0005as-7r; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 15:15:20 -0400 Original-Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1593 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jTsAw-0004dE-4y; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 15:15:19 -0400 In-Reply-To: <20200429185554.wd2byg5lksp7ngj5@E15-2016.optimum.net> (message from Boruch Baum on Wed, 29 Apr 2020 14:55:54 -0400) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-Received-From: 209.51.188.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:179352 Archived-At: > Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 14:55:54 -0400 > From: Boruch Baum > Cc: ulf.jasper@web.de, 40773@debbugs.gnu.org > > > Then I don't understand the rationale for removing the entries from > > there. What useful purpose would that serve? > > It manages and guides users' expectations. Emacs should have a single > authoritative manual, and users should feel confident that they can turn > to a single place for the comprehensive documentation. When you > partially duplicate components in a second place, you confuse beginner > users as to where to turn for documentation. > > If it were up to me, the entire Emacs section for M-x info would have just > three entries: > > Emacs > * The emacs manual All the features of the default emacs > * Your emacs extensions Docs for the add-ons you've installed > * Other emacs help Ways to quickly find information What you describe is very different from how the Info system is supposed to be used. We have commands like info-apropos and info-display-manual and info-lookup to free us from the need to browse the top-level Info directory menu. That's because starting from DIR implies a top-down search for what you want, and that is very inefficient. The DIR node also tends to be very large if you have many manuals installed. For example, installing GNU Coreutils will cause DIR to have an entry for every command in that package, and installing glibc will have an entry for every standard C library function there. That's why Info have commands to land you where you want to be, either directly or in a very small number of steps. Basically, an efficient use of Info should cause you to seldom if ever look at DIR; I don't remember when I last looked at it on my system, and I use Info every day. DIR exists to help Info commands find what I'm looking for, not for me to read through it, certainly not frequently. So maybe we should improve the Info commands and the databases they use to make the various packages described in separate manuals more discoverable, but the specific measures you propose look to me like steps in the wrong direction.