bug#49689: [FEATURE REQUEST] Explicitly report change of input method

bug#49689: [FEATURE REQUEST] Explicitly report change of input method

[Boruch Baum]

Presently, a buffer's current input method is:

  1] Only reported in the form of a cryptic symbol on the mode line.

  2] Aforementioned cryptic symbol is not guaranteed to be unique
     (BUG?).

     (length input-method-alist)
     => 205

     (length (delete-duplicates
               (mapcar (lambda (x) (nth 3 x)) input-method-alist)))
     => 183

  2.1] Example: Hebrew and Hebrew-new

Please consider explicitly reporting changes to the input method. I've
done this to my personal satisfaction locally by adding a single line to
the end of each of functions `activate-input-method' and
`deactivate-input-method', both in file `mule-cmds'.

  (message "Current input method is now: %s" current-input-method))

This change has additional benefits:

  1] Letting me know what I've done when I mis-type `C-\'.

  2] Letting me know what to select when performing `C-h I'

--
hkp://keys.gnupg.net
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bug#49689: [FEATURE REQUEST] Explicitly report change of input method

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2021 18:40:54 -0400
> From: Boruch Baum <boruch_baum@gmx.com>
> 
> Presently, a buffer's current input method is:
> 
>   1] Only reported in the form of a cryptic symbol on the mode line.

You get the full description if you hover the mouse pointer above that
symbol (it's actually a short string).  You can also do this:

  M-: current-input-method RET

>   2] Aforementioned cryptic symbol is not guaranteed to be unique
>      (BUG?).

There are too few short meaningful strings to guarantee uniqueness.
So, not a bug, but a mild misfeature due to screen estate constraints.

>   2.1] Example: Hebrew and Hebrew-new
> 
> Please consider explicitly reporting changes to the input method. I've
> done this to my personal satisfaction locally by adding a single line to
> the end of each of functions `activate-input-method' and
> `deactivate-input-method', both in file `mule-cmds'.
> 
>   (message "Current input method is now: %s" current-input-method))

I don't think I understand the feature request.  The message you
suggest is ephemeral: it will be removed on the next keystroke.  So
it's not like it will be shown there for prolonged periods of time.
How will it help?

> This change has additional benefits:
> 
>   1] Letting me know what I've done when I mis-type `C-\'.

Doesn't "C-h l" help you know that?

> 
>   2] Letting me know what to select when performing `C-h I'

Please elaborate how does that message help with this last task.

Thanks.

bug#49689: [FEATURE REQUEST] Explicitly report change of input method

[Boruch Baum]

On 2021-07-22 09:11, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2021 18:40:54 -0400
> > From: Boruch Baum <boruch_baum@gmx.com>
> >
> > Presently, a buffer's current input method is:
> >
> >   1] Only reported in the form of a cryptic symbol on the mode line.
>
> You get the full description if you hover the mouse pointer above that
> symbol (it's actually a short string).

Only in GUI emacs.

>  You can also do this:
>
>   M-: current-input-method RET

Not user-friendly or a form of automatic feedback.

> >   2] Aforementioned cryptic symbol is not guaranteed to be unique
> >      (BUG?).
>
> There are too few short meaningful strings to guarantee uniqueness.
> So, not a bug, but a mild misfeature due to screen estate constraints.
>
> >   2.1] Example: Hebrew and Hebrew-new

Hebrew-new could possibly be ח for חדש or ע with a unique diacritic.
Other Hebrew input methods use ע with diacritics and Hebrew-Lynx uses ל
instead of ע.

I haven't examined other cases of duplication, but my bet is that
scrutiny is likely to show that each can be uniquified.

> >
> > Please consider explicitly reporting changes to the input method. I've
> > done this to my personal satisfaction locally by adding a single line to
> > the end of each of functions `activate-input-method' and
> > `deactivate-input-method', both in file `mule-cmds'.
> >
> >   (message "Current input method is now: %s" current-input-method))
>
> I don't think I understand the feature request.  The message you
> suggest is ephemeral: it will be removed on the next keystroke.  So
> it's not like it will be shown there for prolonged periods of time.

That is the historical and current standard for emacs messaging. For
example, when one sets or un-sets a mode, emacs does just that, with
just the limitation to which you are objecting. The feature request can
be framed as asking for consistent emacs behavior to extend from changes
of mode to changes of input method.

> How will it help?

It would give immediate feedback upon change-of-state, similar to what
emacs does for many other changes of state, such as setting or
un-setting a mode.

>
> > This change has additional benefits:
> >
> >   1] Letting me know what I've done when I mis-type `C-\'.
>
> Doesn't "C-h l" help you know that?

Not user-friendly. Certainly not newbie-friendly.

> >
> >   2] Letting me know what to select when performing `C-h I'
>
> Please elaborate how does that message help with this last task.

It identifies the current input method by the exact (and guaranteed
unique) name that is used by the `C-h I' completing-read
completion-candidates collection.

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hkp://keys.gnupg.net
CA45 09B5 5351 7C11 A9D1  7286 0036 9E45 1595 8BC0

bug#49689: [FEATURE REQUEST] Explicitly report change of input method

[Andreas Schwab]

On Jul 22 2021, Eli Zaretskii wrote:

>> Presently, a buffer's current input method is:
>> 
>>   1] Only reported in the form of a cryptic symbol on the mode line.
>
> You get the full description if you hover the mouse pointer above that
> symbol (it's actually a short string).  You can also do this:
>
>   M-: current-input-method RET

Or even C-h I.

Andreas.

-- 
Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org
GPG Key fingerprint = 7578 EB47 D4E5 4D69 2510  2552 DF73 E780 A9DA AEC1
"And now for something completely different."

bug#49689: [FEATURE REQUEST] Explicitly report change of input method

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Andreas Schwab <schwab@linux-m68k.org> writes:

>>>   1] Only reported in the form of a cryptic symbol on the mode line.
>>
>> You get the full description if you hover the mouse pointer above that
>> symbol (it's actually a short string).  You can also do this:
>>
>>   M-: current-input-method RET
>
> Or even C-h I.

I think the conclusion here was that we don't want to change how this
works, so I'm closing this bug report.

bug#49689: [FEATURE REQUEST] Explicitly report change of input method

[Visuwesh]

[ஞாயிறு ஆகஸ்ட் 21, 2022] Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote:

>
> Andreas Schwab <schwab@linux-m68k.org> writes:
>
>>>>   1] Only reported in the form of a cryptic symbol on the mode line.
>>>
>>> You get the full description if you hover the mouse pointer above that
>>> symbol (it's actually a short string).  You can also do this:
>>>
>>>   M-: current-input-method RET
>>
>> Or even C-h I.
>
> I think the conclusion here was that we don't want to change how this
> works, so I'm closing this bug report.

FWIW, sometimes I wish Emacs was a little more explicit about changing
input methods, even more so now that transient input methods are a
thing.  Sometimes, I find myself in an odd state of using an input
method when I activate "compose" transiently (I have it bound to M-m):
this could just be my buggy command though.  The message "Loading ..."
helps but not when you switch the second time.  The mode-line indicator
is not a great solution when the indicator is a single letter (I use a
proportional font for the mode-line).

bug#49689: [FEATURE REQUEST] Explicitly report change of input method

[Juri Linkov]

> FWIW, sometimes I wish Emacs was a little more explicit about changing
> input methods, even more so now that transient input methods are a
> thing.  Sometimes, I find myself in an odd state of using an input
> method when I activate "compose" transiently (I have it bound to M-m):
> this could just be my buggy command though.  The message "Loading ..."
> helps but not when you switch the second time.  The mode-line indicator
> is not a great solution when the indicator is a single letter (I use a
> proportional font for the mode-line).

Then you might want to add an advice to the function that toggles
the input method and display a message about the currently active
input method.

bug#49689: [FEATURE REQUEST] Explicitly report change of input method

[Visuwesh]

[செவ்வாய் ஆகஸ்ட் 23, 2022] Juri Linkov wrote:

>
>> FWIW, sometimes I wish Emacs was a little more explicit about changing
>> input methods, even more so now that transient input methods are a
>> thing.  Sometimes, I find myself in an odd state of using an input
>> method when I activate "compose" transiently (I have it bound to M-m):
>> this could just be my buggy command though.  The message "Loading ..."
>> helps but not when you switch the second time.  The mode-line indicator
>> is not a great solution when the indicator is a single letter (I use a
>> proportional font for the mode-line).
>
> Then you might want to add an advice to the function that toggles
> the input method and display a message about the currently active
> input method.

I could but that was not the point of my reply.  It was to give another
data point to maybe reconsider the current decision.