From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#14704: 24.3.50; cl-lib breaks built-in Emacs version Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2013 21:16:10 +0300 Message-ID: <83bo6vjrx1.fsf@gnu.org> References: Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1372097887 5377 80.91.229.3 (24 Jun 2013 18:18:07 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2013 18:18:07 +0000 (UTC) Cc: lekktu@gmail.com, 14704@debbugs.gnu.org To: Sebastian Wiesner Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jun 24 20:18:07 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1UrBL4-0002b6-LC for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 24 Jun 2013 20:18:06 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44746 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UrBL4-0003gn-2a for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 24 Jun 2013 14:18:06 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:43092) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UrBL1-0003es-85 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jun 2013 14:18:04 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UrBL0-0007w8-52 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jun 2013 14:18:03 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:44668) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UrBL0-0007vt-2r for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jun 2013 14:18:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1UrBKz-00064c-Iw for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jun 2013 14:18:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2013 18:18:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 14704 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 14704-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B14704.137209784123251 (code B ref 14704); Mon, 24 Jun 2013 18:18:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 14704) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Jun 2013 18:17:21 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38983 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1UrBKK-00062w-EU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jun 2013 14:17:20 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout20.012.net.il ([80.179.55.166]:36111) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1UrBKH-00062c-Ht for 14704@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jun 2013 14:17:18 -0400 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout20.012.net.il by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MOW00500TC0ZY00@a-mtaout20.012.net.il> for 14704@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Jun 2013 21:16:22 +0300 (IDT) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MOW005XRTF8JKB0@a-mtaout20.012.net.il>; Mon, 24 Jun 2013 21:16:21 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:75522 Archived-At: > Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2013 19:51:20 +0200 > From: Sebastian Wiesner > Cc: 14704@debbugs.gnu.org > > 2013/6/24 Juanma Barranquero : > > On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 5:30 PM, Sebastian Wiesner wrote: > > > >> This is the 3rd critical package.el bug I discovered within just a week > >> or so. Don't you test your code?! > > > > If you want well-tested code, stay with Emacs official releases. If > > you compile from trunk, expect breakages, untested code and potential > > data loss. Caveat user. > > Who would test your code then before releases if not those who compile > from trunk? Each release is preceded by a long pretest period, when we are trying to collect usage experiences from as many different platforms and users as possible. > You developers obviously don't… and what is worse, you apparently do > even *care*. I don't think this is a fair comment. A released version is more stable than a development snapshot, that's a fact. It has nothing to do with caring or not. It also doesn't only happen due to more testing: during a pretest, only bugfixes are allowed into the code base, so potentially destabilizing changes are avoided. > I am sorry that you do not know about CI, unit testing and software > quality, but I do, and thus I am horrified by the neglect and > ignorance you demonstrate in developing one of the most important > tools of my daily work. While more testing is always a good thing, some areas in Emacs are hard to test. Please consider coming on board and moving Emacs closer to the CI ideals and testability. TIA.