From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#47784: 27.2: ses-header-row [PATCH INCLUDED] Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 12:23:22 +0300 Message-ID: <83bla8q9dh.fsf@gnu.org> References: <20210415033147.a3hoclq24colpjf7@E15-2016.optimum.net> <83eef8vhdr.fsf@gnu.org> <20210419092430.zv5gorzsvn5g2cdc@E15-2016.optimum.net> <83y2des9yn.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="24451"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: boruch_baum@gmx.com, 47784@debbugs.gnu.org To: Stefan Kangas Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Apr 21 11:24:09 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lZ95c-0006Fx-O0 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 11:24:08 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43636 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lZ95b-0005Q4-Nf for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 05:24:07 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:38638) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lZ95W-0005Pw-4o for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 05:24:02 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:45462) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lZ95V-0007sE-Th for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 05:24:01 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lZ95V-000765-Qn for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 05:24:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 09:24:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 47784 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch Original-Received: via spool by 47784-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B47784.161899702327243 (code B ref 47784); Wed, 21 Apr 2021 09:24:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 47784) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Apr 2021 09:23:43 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57008 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lZ95D-00075L-5o for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 05:23:43 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:54204) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lZ95B-000755-WA for 47784@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 05:23:42 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:52975) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lZ956-0007cd-Eu; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 05:23:36 -0400 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:3075 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1lZ955-0002DD-UR; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 05:23:36 -0400 In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Tue, 20 Apr 2021 19:02:26 -0500) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:204593 Archived-At: > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2021 19:02:26 -0500 > Cc: Boruch Baum , 47784@debbugs.gnu.org > > >> They avoid spawning a backtrace buffer when toggle-debug-on-error is set > >> and the error is a user input error caught by a validation test within > >> an `interactive' function call. > > > > I understand that, but the same is true for every call to 'error' > > whenever debug-on-error is set. Since by default debug-on-error is > > NOT set, I don't think I agree with that part of the change. (Why do > > you even have that variable set non-nil?) > > AFAIU, `user-error' is to be used when, according to its docstring: > > This is like ‘error’ except that a user error (or "pilot error") comes > from an incorrect manipulation by the user, not from an actual problem. > > So if that is the case here, then it should be `user-error's and > otherwise it should be plain `error's. Right? How do you establish whether a particular problem is due to "incorrect manipulation by the user"? Since almost everything in Emacs comes from the user, one way or another, every error is due to "incorrect manipulation" of some kind. OTOH, commands can also be invoked from Lisp, non-interactively, in which case the user may have nothing to do with the problem, at least not directly. With that in mind, please look at the code where Boruch suggested to make these changes, and tell me what you think about them. Boruch's rationale was a different one, it stems from running with debug-on-error set non-nil. But that is a very unusual thing to do, and is bound to produce annoying backtraces all over the place. So I'm not sure I share the opinion that these changes should be made. I would like to hear other opinions, though.