From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#1305: All code that currently beeps should use visual bell instead Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2021 09:30:34 +0300 Message-ID: <83a6pwumt1.fsf@gnu.org> References: <009901c9421f$5bd0a6b0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <00ad01c942a0$1f49ca60$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <87eef9qg81.fsf@gnus.org> <1869622e162377be79e9@heytings.org> <83bladw0dh.fsf@gnu.org> <87a6pxqdeg.fsf@gnus.org> <875z0lqcj4.fsf@gnus.org> <1869622e1602a39e56a6@heytings.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="6652"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 1305@debbugs.gnu.org, stefan@marxist.se, jasonspiro4@gmail.com, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca To: Gregory Heytings Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Apr 18 08:33:32 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lY0zs-0001dd-CP for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 18 Apr 2021 08:33:32 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59454 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lY0zr-0005CH-Fn for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 18 Apr 2021 02:33:31 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:47692) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lY0yQ-00055b-Rg for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Apr 2021 02:32:02 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:33592) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lY0yQ-0003O8-K7 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Apr 2021 02:32:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lY0yQ-0004Qb-HV for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Apr 2021 02:32:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2021 06:32:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 1305 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 1305-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B1305.161872746416951 (code B ref 1305); Sun, 18 Apr 2021 06:32:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 1305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Apr 2021 06:31:04 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45138 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lY0xT-0004PL-Qu for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 Apr 2021 02:31:04 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:34910) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lY0xR-0004Ok-Tb for 1305@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 Apr 2021 02:31:02 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:47261) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lY0xM-0002fL-Dc; Sun, 18 Apr 2021 02:30:56 -0400 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:3682 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1lY0xK-0003hg-A2; Sun, 18 Apr 2021 02:30:54 -0400 In-Reply-To: <1869622e1602a39e56a6@heytings.org> (message from Gregory Heytings on Sat, 17 Apr 2021 20:59:52 +0000) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:204300 Archived-At: > Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2021 20:59:52 +0000 > From: Gregory Heytings > Cc: jasonspiro4@gmail.com, 1305@debbugs.gnu.org, > Stefan Kangas , monnier@iro.umontreal.ca > > I checked on macOS, and the only apps (at least, the only apps among the > ones I use) that repeatedly beep are the terminal and Emacs. Other apps > only beep when you do something "wrong", that is, when they cannot do what > you want (for example when you ask the program to paste something when > there is nothing to paste), or when they open an important dialog. The > terminal also beeps when it cannot do what you want (for example when you > press TAB and it cannot complete the current input). In comparison, Emacs > beeps a lot. Emacs beeps a lot if you do things that make it beep. Like try to go where no one has gone before. By contrast, other apps beep when they see fit. A MUA plays sounds when a new email arrives; the desktop beeps when it has some notification that it thinks you must see and act upon, etc. etc. I don't see how Emacs is the odd one out here. And we are bikeshedding again: the opinions are clearly divided, and Emacs lets each one of us customize this feature as they see fit. So why is arguing about the default so important, when there's clearly no consensus? I say let's just close the issue as wontfix and move on.