From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#50936: "(emacs) Help" does say how to find external packages Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2021 18:46:36 +0300 Message-ID: <83a6jseoir.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83mtntdizr.fsf@gnu.org> <83ee94euwe.fsf@gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="18962"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 50936@debbugs.gnu.org To: Stefan Kangas Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 01 17:48:32 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mWKm0-0004iu-16 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 17:48:32 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39428 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWKly-0003fl-RV for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 11:48:30 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:36694) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWKlY-0003dq-5I for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 11:48:04 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:45627) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWKlW-0002BW-AJ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 11:48:03 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mWKlW-0001jS-8p for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 11:48:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2021 15:48:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 50936 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 50936-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B50936.16331032276561 (code B ref 50936); Fri, 01 Oct 2021 15:48:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 50936) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Oct 2021 15:47:07 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57169 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mWKkW-0001hH-5i for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 11:47:07 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:59528) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mWKkT-0001h1-S6 for 50936@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 11:46:58 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:43230) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWKkO-0001FI-Cf; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 11:46:52 -0400 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:1291 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWKkO-0007KV-4t; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 11:46:52 -0400 In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Fri, 1 Oct 2021 16:42:13 +0200) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:216060 Archived-At: > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2021 16:42:13 +0200 > Cc: 50936@debbugs.gnu.org > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > > That's a problem, but there is IMO no way around that as long as Emacs > > > doesn't bundle packages like php-mode, haskell-mode, eglot or > > > lsp-mode, markdown-mode, etc. > > > > I don't understand the relevance, please elaborate. > > As a user, I come to "Help" to learn how to find more information on > e.g. "I want indentation for Haskell code", or "how to enable syntax > highlighting for Markdown". The answer to many such questions is that > you need to look for and install an external package. The manual explains what is available in Emacs. If the user looks for features not in Emacs, it is okay not to find them in our documentation. It is unrealistic for use to provide ways to find features outside of Emacs, because they are too many. What if the user is after something that's not on ELPA? When we figure out how to more closely integrate with ELPA, we should as part of that try to find ways of searching the documentation of those packages as part of our "normal" Help commands. But until we have done that, I see no reason to make that section in the manual less efficient just so we could say we are more complete. I think doing so will result in net loss.