From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#37700: 27.0.50; undo mouse-drag-and-drop-region ineffective Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2019 21:36:05 +0300 Message-ID: <838sprp1t6.fsf@gnu.org> References: <3311689D-B1DF-4BAC-86BA-E3D2C6D2ECF1@acm.org> <94D2DE0C-8BD0-4CCF-B77D-5606A1D227DD@acm.org> <83imovpck5.fsf@gnu.org> <8A69325D-7EC4-4B8D-BAD2-6E3C048E5078@acm.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="227357"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: 37700@debbugs.gnu.org To: Mattias =?UTF-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 11 20:39:10 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iIzok-000x1f-6a for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 11 Oct 2019 20:39:10 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55682 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iIzoi-0006Dm-K8 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 11 Oct 2019 14:39:08 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:59287) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iIzmh-0003YY-BG for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Oct 2019 14:37:04 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iIzmg-00067G-7m for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Oct 2019 14:37:03 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:51500) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iIzmg-00066q-3z for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Oct 2019 14:37:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iIzmf-0006kI-VJ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Oct 2019 14:37:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2019 18:37:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 37700 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 37700-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B37700.157081898725788 (code B ref 37700); Fri, 11 Oct 2019 18:37:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 37700) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Oct 2019 18:36:27 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60321 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iIzm6-0006hq-R0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Oct 2019 14:36:27 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:50115) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iIzm4-0006hK-QV for 37700@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Oct 2019 14:36:25 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:48078) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iIzlz-0005di-5i; Fri, 11 Oct 2019 14:36:19 -0400 Original-Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2711 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1iIzly-0000n0-JK; Fri, 11 Oct 2019 14:36:18 -0400 In-reply-to: <8A69325D-7EC4-4B8D-BAD2-6E3C048E5078@acm.org> (message from Mattias =?UTF-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= on Fri, 11 Oct 2019 19:18:51 +0200) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 209.51.188.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:169002 Archived-At: > From: Mattias Engdegård > Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2019 19:18:51 +0200 > Cc: martin rudalics , 37700@debbugs.gnu.org > > 11 okt. 2019 kl. 16.43 skrev Eli Zaretskii : > > > > Given that the region can be easily deactivated, I'm not sure I see > > the sense in introducing options that selectively disable > > region-sensitive behavior of specific commands. > > When the user doesn't like the result of an operation, be it a change of mind or a mistake, the first logical reaction is to undo. Many users if not most are unaware that undo in Emacs is restricted to an active region, and even if they know, they are not likely to think of it before instinctively pressing the well-learned undo key. > > One reason is that no other editor works like this; another is that almost all other operations that can be undone either deactivate the region or take place wholly inside it, so there is no reason for the user to care about that quirk. > > Moreover, users are often aware from experience with other software that the time to undo an action is immediately afterwards, with no other potentially inhibiting action in-between. Requiring a specific undo-enabling action is therefore doubly hostile. You are arguing that 'undo' should never be sensitive to the active region. If that was so, we'd have gobs of bug reports, because this behavior is quite old, since 2007 AFAICT. So evidently this feature is not as hostile as you seem to imply. Moreover, the situation is not irrecoverable, even if the user does make mistakes you describe: one can undo the undo, then disable the region, and undo again. Your change, however, was for an option that would disable this behavior only optionally, not altogether. And my response was to the idea that we should have knobs that selectively disable region-sensitive behavior of specific commands one by one. I still maintain that doing that for individual commands makes little sense to me.