From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#37774: 27.0.50; new :extend attribute broke visuals of all themes and other packages Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2019 17:56:02 +0300 Message-ID: <838spaxke5.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83bluhf7nz.fsf@gnu.org> <20191016111004.oialbyleokafpccz@Ergus> <87k194fvn7.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <871rvceeqp.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83tv88cyic.fsf@gnu.org> <83pniwcvon.fsf@gnu.org> <87pniw30td.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <4dc05091-53db-bff9-4623-0aedd9c2907f@gmx.at> <6f01b03d-7be3-71cc-ff97-c1a4f7b3c213@yandex.ru> <83tv879vy0.fsf@gnu.org> <6bc27f9f-e701-afb8-c6f1-408f471187c7@yandex.ru> <83imon9tg3.fsf@gnu.org> <5db11c91-a216-40f6-f4c2-7b10c73532cc@yandex.ru> <83h8424ojp.fsf@gnu.org> <9fbdd8e8-4f6a-1aba-6509-d2699c82373b@yandex.ru> <83k18vzd1j.fsf@gnu.org> <3919a409-1a2b-8da6-a1d0-f9f6def09dfe@yandex.ru> <831rv3z6cn.fsf@gnu.org> Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="211643"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: 37774@debbugs.gnu.org To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Oct 24 18:18:04 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iNfoI-000spC-RC for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 18:18:02 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46480 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iNfoG-0005Wv-PA for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 12:18:00 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:43295) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iNeXw-0000zj-2L for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 10:57:05 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iNeXu-0000fP-NT for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 10:57:03 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:56175) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iNeXu-0000fJ-KB for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 10:57:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iNeXu-0001GG-FU for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 10:57:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2019 14:57:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 37774 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 37774-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B37774.15719289894811 (code B ref 37774); Thu, 24 Oct 2019 14:57:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 37774) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Oct 2019 14:56:29 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36763 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iNeXM-0001FV-8L for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 10:56:29 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:34107) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iNeXJ-0001FI-V6 for 37774@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 10:56:26 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:46653) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iNeXE-0000RK-E3; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 10:56:20 -0400 Original-Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3808 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1iNeXA-0006yG-VU; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 10:56:18 -0400 In-reply-to: (message from Dmitry Gutov on Wed, 23 Oct 2019 23:28:50 +0300) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 209.51.188.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:170135 Archived-At: > Cc: 37774@debbugs.gnu.org > From: Dmitry Gutov > Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 23:28:50 +0300 > > > I don't mind if package maintainers want to make that decision by > > themselves, but if that is the case, I don't think there's anything > > left to do for this bug report? I though some action will be required > > from us, that's why I asked all those questions. > > We should define and document a "migration path", e.g. say what a > package author should do if they have a face which needs to be extended, > preferably without breaking compatibility with Emacs 26. We can do that in NEWS, if what's already there is not clear enough. > > It's a difference between a small number and a very large number. > > Theoretically, someone could argue that a change that requires to > > modify lots of faces shouldn't be so unconditional, or shouldn't be > > the default, or should have a "fire escape", or something to that > > effect. But if people don't mind changing their faces, then such > > fears have no basis, and we are good with what we have. > > A "fire escape" would depend on a user's config, right? I don't like the > sound of that approach, personally. "Fire escape" in this context means a way to get the old behavior without inordinately too much work on the part of the user. > A lot of face don't inherit from anything on purpose. Anyway, I've > pinged Magit's maintainer, let's see what he says. Thanks. > >>> If too many faces in unbundled packages indeed need to change in that > >>> way, we should consider additional measures. That's why we need good > >>> reasons for extending each face, not just "because they were before" > >>> or because people were used to see them extended. > >> > >> Those are not the worst reasons, though. > > > > Not sure I understand in what sens did you use "the worst" here. > > "People were used to ..." is basically 99% of the arguments that were > given in all past discussions for not changing defaults to be more > "modern" or whatever. And there's some merit to that. No, in past discussions people usually also brought up functionality-related arguments, not just that they are used to the old behavior.