From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#46240: Sorting order of read-char-by-name Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2021 20:44:47 +0200 Message-ID: <838s865mxs.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87v9bb4tm2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83wnvr65zg.fsf@gnu.org> <87o8h266x2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="40883"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 46240@debbugs.gnu.org To: Juri Linkov Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Feb 02 19:45:11 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1l70fn-000AUY-5P for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2021 19:45:11 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54154 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l70fm-0001wX-6Q for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2021 13:45:10 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:55526) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l70fe-0001vK-Ro for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2021 13:45:02 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:52864) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l70fe-0002OJ-Jj for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2021 13:45:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1l70fe-0000Ie-GW for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2021 13:45:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2021 18:45:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 46240 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch Original-Received: via spool by 46240-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B46240.16122915001130 (code B ref 46240); Tue, 02 Feb 2021 18:45:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 46240) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Feb 2021 18:45:00 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36177 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1l70fa-0000I8-W5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2021 13:45:00 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:37634) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1l70fX-0000Ht-B6 for 46240@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2021 13:44:57 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:52702) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l70fR-0002JH-5h; Tue, 02 Feb 2021 13:44:49 -0500 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:2414 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1l70fQ-00039o-Jj; Tue, 02 Feb 2021 13:44:48 -0500 In-Reply-To: <87o8h266x2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (message from Juri Linkov on Tue, 02 Feb 2021 19:13:13 +0200) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:199164 Archived-At: > From: Juri Linkov > Cc: 46240@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2021 19:13:13 +0200 > > > This has 2 disadvantages: > > > > . the user needs to know the order of characters within a script > > he/she doesn't necessarily read > > In this case usually the names of characters of an unknown script > say nothing too, so sorting them by their names doesn't help much. It isn't black and white. For example, I'm familiar with quite a few scripts and their characters, but have no idea about the alphabetical order of most of them, with the exception of only two or three (end even there I don't always remember the order of every character). > > . the user needs to know the order _between_ scripts, if the > > candidates include characters from different Unicode blocks > > IMHO, this is not a disadvantage, but an advantage, because > it helps to group the matched characters by their Unicode ranges. Think of a case when there are more than 2 or three scripts involved. You will have them take several window-fulls, and it could then be a problem to find the script you are looking for. This is similar to having a directory with many files whose names use several scripts: when these files are sorted alphabetically, you may not immediately know whether file names that belong to some script are close to the beginning or end of the list, because the relative ordering of scripts in Unicode codepoint order is not necessarily something we remember. (And then there are some scripts that use more than a single Unicode block.) > > If the user doesn't know this order, he/she might be unable to find > > the required character quickly, if the list of candidates is long > > enough. > > I never rely on the current sorting alphabetically by names. > When the list of candidates is long, I need to use isearch > to search in the necessary block whose characters are scattered > currently in almost random order. Well, I guess there are also people like you, then. So maybe we need this to be an opt-in behavior.