From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#49507: 28.0.50; macOS: =?UTF-8?Q?Symbol=E2=80=99s?= value as variable is void: lock-file-name-transforms Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2021 17:50:45 +0300 Message-ID: <838s2cc3ay.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87h7h2lz7w.fsf@gnus.org> <83im1hbcbg.fsf@gnu.org> <87sg0lkqyv.fsf@gnus.org> <83a6mtavas.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="5124"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 49507@debbugs.gnu.org, naofumi@yasufuku.dev To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Jul 11 16:52:10 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1m2aoU-00015K-LU for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 11 Jul 2021 16:52:10 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:45150 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m2aoT-0005b9-79 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 11 Jul 2021 10:52:09 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:33456) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m2aoM-0005b0-Vu for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 11 Jul 2021 10:52:03 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:52278) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m2aoM-0003lS-HK for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 11 Jul 2021 10:52:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m2aoM-0003PP-Gl for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 11 Jul 2021 10:52:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2021 14:52:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 49507 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: moreinfo Original-Received: via spool by 49507-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B49507.162601506913033 (code B ref 49507); Sun, 11 Jul 2021 14:52:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 49507) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Jul 2021 14:51:09 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35589 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m2anV-0003O9-8j for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 11 Jul 2021 10:51:09 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:35426) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m2anQ-0003Nc-SC for 49507@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 11 Jul 2021 10:51:08 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:49012) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m2anJ-0002yW-G3; Sun, 11 Jul 2021 10:50:57 -0400 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:3083 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m2anI-0002aH-SA; Sun, 11 Jul 2021 10:50:57 -0400 In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Monnier on Sun, 11 Jul 2021 10:27:11 -0400) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:209801 Archived-At: > From: Stefan Monnier > Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 49507@debbugs.gnu.org, > naofumi@yasufuku.dev > Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2021 10:27:11 -0400 > > > However, given this incident, I'm worried that others could trip on > > this subtlety. So I wonder whether we should describe it in the ELisp > > manual. > > What is "it"? `custom-initialize-delay` is described in > `lispref/custom.texi` so are you suggesting that we don't describe > it there? No, I'm saying that we should recommend its use only with variables that are defined in C, which makes sure they are defined by the time the startup code runs. > > I think we should generally advise against using this tag for > > defcustom's that might affect the startup code itself. > > We should generally advise against using this initialization function > at all. Obviously it has its uses, but it's finicky. > > > For 100% safety, one should probably use it only with variables > > defined in C. Stefan, do you agree? > > I don't see why being defined in C would be relevant, no. Because those are always defined when the startup code runs. By contrast, if you define them in some preloaded Lisp file, the defcustom form could run before the preloaded Lisp is restored from the pdumper file. Maybe I'm confused, but in that case can you describe why the error happens for lock-file-name-transforms when the startup code needs to lock a file early on?