From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#56508: Suggestions for the "Help" menu Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 17:21:38 +0300 Message-ID: <838royxvgt.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83wncjxdcx.fsf@gnu.org> <83sfn6xzhf.fsf@gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="8676"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 56508@debbugs.gnu.org To: Stefan Kangas Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 12 16:23:15 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oBGnB-00024Y-VS for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 12 Jul 2022 16:23:14 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33396 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oBGnA-0003M2-Gj for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 12 Jul 2022 10:23:12 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:53316) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oBGn0-0003Gx-MA for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jul 2022 10:23:03 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:49469) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oBGn0-0000vh-DE for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jul 2022 10:23:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oBGn0-0002Kd-8a for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jul 2022 10:23:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 14:23:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 56508 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 56508-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B56508.16576357258857 (code B ref 56508); Tue, 12 Jul 2022 14:23:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 56508) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Jul 2022 14:22:05 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43361 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oBGm4-0002In-Hg for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jul 2022 10:22:05 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:38576) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oBGlu-0002IB-7W for 56508@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jul 2022 10:22:03 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:42816) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oBGlo-0000og-W7; Tue, 12 Jul 2022 10:21:49 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=Gg4cOMlYSR1IG7wTcx70JRnWS4TgaUc7C6aHk3D1uCU=; b=kpXtmfu3TDMD DgsIembzCwZUyLBFVAE2ckaA/nyAI4RIbwuayzObdqZG9+gMwtfjYhbrc+KEXwFMiK2XaHQdiCiOr Ahk7JW7BcrVSWjzVIMZuFiUCkFG79mOT1ZubXXD0zFg7NEGF6WU235t4AdKzNnVZad4/VV17olxdV tHPJqrc4DyOJLtg4OVd1MlQMnAF4XxjG8oUGz6qozOBII+HnOyy65oWPFMS2WqeuYTh4OhxHmvHbD X6tp48Gf093opAud00W2IEpw6NK2fHQAoLr8Y6Qkb0F6x2MrbZlqEt1Fn/XB187MdHO2KCTc19UAf Qtidhpmc3SIKSgadCltdZw==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=2753 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oBGlo-0003Pj-Fs; Tue, 12 Jul 2022 10:21:48 -0400 In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Tue, 12 Jul 2022 09:04:53 -0500) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:236800 Archived-At: > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 09:04:53 -0500 > Cc: 56508@debbugs.gnu.org > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > it's a matter of personal opinion, so let's not argue about > > that. > > Sure. > > > The important question is: does that single menu item do any harm? > > Not that one item in and of itself, no, but overall the "Help" menu does > feel overwhelming. Anything we could remove from it would help, and to > my mind this is an obvious candidate. The Help menu is supposed to be overwhelming, and that is a Good Thing! > > Our current stopgap is to tell more in the help-echo (which you for > > some reason ignore in your criticism). > > The help-echo and the menu item text could just switch places, and it > would be an improvement, IMHO. No, the help-echo text is too long for a menu item. The challenge is to come up with a shorter phrase that basically says the same. > (FWIW, I couldn't find anything about "Mule" in the Emacs manual outside > of "ps-mule.el" and `(emacs) MS-DOS'.) There are hits in ELisp.