From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#61847: debug-early-backtrace only works some of the time. Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2023 19:04:32 +0200 Message-ID: <838rggflnj.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83v8jkfz04.fsf@gnu.org> <83edq8fokr.fsf@gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="37906"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 61847@debbugs.gnu.org To: Alan Mackenzie Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Mar 01 18:05:14 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pXPtA-0009cu-Tm for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 01 Mar 2023 18:05:12 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pXPt3-0007cn-J9; Wed, 01 Mar 2023 12:05:06 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pXPt1-0007cZ-74 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 01 Mar 2023 12:05:03 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pXPt0-000131-QJ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 01 Mar 2023 12:05:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pXPt0-0002Qq-Az for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 01 Mar 2023 12:05:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2023 17:05:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 61847 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 61847-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B61847.16776902689300 (code B ref 61847); Wed, 01 Mar 2023 17:05:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 61847) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Mar 2023 17:04:28 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54802 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pXPsR-0002Pw-MU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 01 Mar 2023 12:04:28 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:44042) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pXPsQ-0002Pj-Ad for 61847@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 01 Mar 2023 12:04:26 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pXPsJ-0000qj-QU; Wed, 01 Mar 2023 12:04:19 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=FFLpHqGjAo3NtEiKQ8VGE1ayqa59rDRSr9B1/GMKzJA=; b=f9c3Kbg563bS VoUIF/ICIKR5tBZidg00Lyf49SLWD3hJGgUu5vCBFiKYMUAot1R7uWbodTZxn15NU8quxQ+pJl31+ 8rZCxHlD+wsVoCO4lOdtKPFauYtXvCqjnE/8Ztm6za6JC9O1LakVMKD3YzgD/oO9Q4F2M4L5uoliH azGPUoPEGQs1v/Yfu9QXgz4qJa70FOZQM9HZWDnLZTBq1CN7BHqVGMTKLkIrA6h6LyLChNs2WdieU 45sVOQxvpoIHKdyLqc+LVB9YLkP4IJdxH0lE/lZ4phIo2R5MyrVZn2nKHGIpLaHNG2flZ0/LP4ZMP SRTeqhwT7R69KnfTTWUr/A==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pXPsI-0006n9-TR; Wed, 01 Mar 2023 12:04:19 -0500 In-Reply-To: (message from Alan Mackenzie on Wed, 1 Mar 2023 16:46:52 +0000) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:257086 Archived-At: > Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2023 16:46:52 +0000 > Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 61847@debbugs.gnu.org > From: Alan Mackenzie > > > Some fancy Lisp facilities are already available anyway. And I see no > > reason for this requirement in this case. > > In a situation where Emacs does not bootstrap, instead crashing during > the loading or compiling of the Lisp files, we need a debugging tool > which isn't dependent upon those Lisp files. That is what debug-early.el > is intended to be. You are saying that only Lisp code can crash and make debugging harder? Have you never seen crashes inside prin1? Any code that prints arbitrary objects can crash. That fact is not a useful argument for or against a particular alternative for such printing. Anyway, I don't see any point in continuing this argument. It is clear that we disagree here, and the nature of the disagreement is also very clear.