From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#24774: 26.0.50; Menu display navigation commands Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2021 09:43:55 +0200 Message-ID: <837dmuoszo.fsf@gnu.org> References: <63bb0f8f-86ff-a260-66a1-8a82d4ef6c9e@easy-emacs.de> <87h7pml6ds.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmyvkt4.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1l6bwlw.fsf@gnus.org> <834ki2vjx2.fsf@gnu.org> <831rd6vime.fsf@gnu.org> <87lfbc4iyh.fsf@gmx.net> <20A0FFE1-60BC-4BB0-A840-15D8D39D1B1D@gnu.org> <87y2fc420p.fsf@gnus.org> <83ft1krwuz.fsf@gnu.org> <87czwo401x.fsf@gnus.org> <837dmwroxu.fsf@gnu.org> <87h7lzmcz4.fsf@gnus.org> <83blc7qbld.fsf@gnu.org> <87lfbbkp6h.fsf@gnus.org> <838s7bqai9.fsf@gnu.org> <8735xiku8g.fsf@gnus.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="18294"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: stephen.berman@gmx.net, stefan@marxist.se, 24774@debbugs.gnu.org To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Feb 27 08:45:11 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lFuHn-0004ft-ID for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 08:45:11 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:34378 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lFuHm-0005Oe-C3 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 02:45:10 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:57786) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lFuHe-0005NF-54 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 02:45:02 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:59813) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lFuHd-0003LQ-Rt for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 02:45:01 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lFuHd-0006ag-NP for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 02:45:01 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2021 07:45:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 24774 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: easy patch Original-Received: via spool by 24774-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B24774.161441185525254 (code B ref 24774); Sat, 27 Feb 2021 07:45:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 24774) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Feb 2021 07:44:15 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43126 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lFuGs-0006ZF-UW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 02:44:15 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:39870) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lFuGr-0006Z1-88 for 24774@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 02:44:13 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:56598) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lFuGk-0002aO-Cz; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 02:44:07 -0500 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:1439 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1lFuGj-0003Bd-JT; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 02:44:06 -0500 In-Reply-To: <8735xiku8g.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Sat, 27 Feb 2021 05:30:39 +0100) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:200924 Archived-At: > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > Cc: stephen.berman@gmx.net, stefan@marxist.se, 24774@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2021 05:30:39 +0100 > > > But the same argument can be brought up for cl-macs.el and cl-lib.el > > and seq.el and map.el and pcase.el and probably several others. > > Yes, of course. > > > Where do we stop, if the criterion is "better and more sensible" > > (which are highly subjective judgments)? > > I don't think anybody claims that the non-easymenu way of defining menus > is superior? It isn't a catastrophe, IMO, not even close. Non-easymenu: (bindings--define-key prof-map [prof-natprof-stop] '(menu-item "Stop Native Profiler" profiler-stop :help "Stop recording profiling information" :enable (and (featurep 'profiler) (profiler-running-p)))) With easymenu: ["Show trailing whitespace" whitespace-mode :style toggle :selected (bound-and-true-p whitespace-mode) :help "Show trailing whitespace in modified lines"] There's some boilerplate in the former, but it isn't unreadable, and writing it is just a bunch of C-y's in addition to the actual content, which must be typed in both cases. It isn't superior, but is it so awfully inferior? I don't think so. > Our most important code is the one that is in the very core of Emacs, > and it's a shame we don't use more of these libraries there, and instead > open-code stuff badly. I disagree with "shame" and "badly". Next we will see similar arguments about all the other packages mentioned above. Again, I think we should agree on some criteria, because otherwise we will not be able to reconcile subjective opinions about stylistic issues. > > I'd like to see the actual numbers, please. And also the memory > > footprint before and after loading easymenu. With the current code, I > > see a 0.25MB increase in the VM size after I load easymenu.elc. > > Pre patch: > > larsi@xo:~/src/emacs/trunk$ ls -l src/emacs src/emacs.pdmp lisp/progmodes/elisp-mode.elc > -rw-r--r-- 1 larsi larsi 60375 Feb 27 05:09 lisp/progmodes/elisp-mode.elc > -rwxr-xr-x 2 larsi larsi 32583784 Feb 27 05:10 src/emacs > -rw-r--r-- 2 larsi larsi 10630544 Feb 27 05:10 src/emacs.pdmp > > Post patch: > > larsi@xo:~/src/emacs/trunk$ ls -l src/emacs src/emacs.pdmp lisp/progmodes/elisp-mode.elc > -rw-r--r-- 1 larsi larsi 58798 Feb 27 05:21 lisp/progmodes/elisp-mode.elc > -rwxr-xr-x 2 larsi larsi 32583784 Feb 27 05:21 src/emacs > -rw-r--r-- 2 larsi larsi 10632360 Feb 27 05:21 src/emacs.pdmp > > (- (+ 10632360 58798) (+ 10630544 60375)) => 239 bytes. Thanks, but I meant the runtime memory footprint, not the size on disk (which IMO is of no importance, as long as small savings are being discussed).