From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#66780: [PATCH] Improve rectangle-mark-mode when transient-mark-mode is off Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2023 21:48:57 +0300 Message-ID: <837cn6d1ly.fsf@gnu.org> References: <0b1f5f23-b683-4367-beae-332a8d850d32@vodafonemail.de> <83zg03clik.fsf@gnu.org> <871qdf3trr.fsf@sappc2.fritz.box> <83lebnc8tn.fsf@gnu.org> <87y1fm3o78.fsf@sappc2.fritz.box> <83edhedgy4.fsf@gnu.org> <87v8aq3dr2.fsf@sappc2.fritz.box> <83a5s2d789.fsf@gnu.org> <87sf5u38if.fsf@sappc2.fritz.box> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="25192"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 66780@debbugs.gnu.org, stefankangas@gmail.com To: Jens Schmidt Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Oct 28 20:49:46 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qwoNW-0006NM-6s for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 28 Oct 2023 20:49:46 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qwoNH-0002b1-HX; Sat, 28 Oct 2023 14:49:31 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qwoNF-0002ao-Uf for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Oct 2023 14:49:29 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:5::43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qwoNF-0003Nz-Kk for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Oct 2023 14:49:29 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qwoNl-0005uV-Nr for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Oct 2023 14:50:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2023 18:50:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 66780 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch Original-Received: via spool by 66780-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B66780.169851899322701 (code B ref 66780); Sat, 28 Oct 2023 18:50:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 66780) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Oct 2023 18:49:53 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39557 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qwoNd-0005u5-0s for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 28 Oct 2023 14:49:53 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:52246) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qwoNb-0005ts-9o for 66780@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 28 Oct 2023 14:49:52 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qwoMz-0003NE-9Q; Sat, 28 Oct 2023 14:49:13 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=Am/mH4kQElisMGHH4lr9ObKFkYnjs3RFpI82G5DO4CA=; b=Po/B0hrh0+7I I5+qfo5IGZ/DvJl1i47L2bN5jJ9ItgvKMuvZZA35JUswXQn42xni1c5aSwc7A/vTYW2ZhapQQzsrf N66dhPffMPAIGu2pRfT6MqlWKWMILASMPiV/yOPoNOFPmuXOwx5hy/HfqEWR+Qp6pg7muBd+GyslF SwwnM1hblJVllg4MUMj47nla8whE6eqxTz1A9V8rBbRZVJKItpJkUsYniJqMSFdSDbioPCQJ1JKZb nBjLZcmAF44ltElETaB8zwjGM5s+4JfFLfUFOdOOBxP26Qlqeav0MAW+M1z9kVK5XQz+gjqDMsFsX j32za6Jwre8UM5vo1T76OQ==; In-Reply-To: <87sf5u38if.fsf@sappc2.fritz.box> (message from Jens Schmidt on Sat, 28 Oct 2023 20:30:00 +0200) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:273464 Archived-At: > From: Jens Schmidt > Cc: 66780@debbugs.gnu.org, stefankangas@gmail.com > Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2023 20:30:00 +0200 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > >> It's not only my "personal preferences and use patterns". See Sean's > >> bug#42663 plus Michael's bug#16066. So every now and then somebody > >> having transient-mark-mode switched off comes across this. > > > > Yes, I know. But that doesn't remove the need to justify a change to > > Emacs. > > And what justifies a change? Let's focus on the lighter change: What > would justify this? More frequent user demand? Serious reasons to make the change. For this particular one, I guess arguments for why this situation is not as obscure and unimportant as it looks. Obscure aspects of Emacs use do not get to be described in the user manual, since the manual is not supposed to describe every command, variable, and function we have in Emacs, only those deemed important enough. For the rest, there are the doc string and Help commands that search those doc strings and help users find those symbols even though they are not in the manual. > >> > Why do you insist on making these changes in upstream, to > >> > affect everyone else [...] > >> > >> It's not "everyone else". My solution of adding a conditional minor > >> mode lighter has been designed to specifically affect (== help) only > >> those that do not use permanent transient-mark-mode. > > > > It's one more minor mode with one more lighter. So yes, it affects > > everyone else. > > By its mere presence in `minor-mode-alist', mapping to a variable there > that is nil most of the time? How would that affect you, for example? For starters, I'd need to know about it, so I could understand what it tells me when it is present. When it _is_ present, it's quite possible that some other mode-line information important to me will be pushed outside of the visible part. > >> Or, in other words: Which of my change requests so far had truly the > >> quality to affect me and only me? > > > > Are you asking about the 3 suggestions in this bug report? > > The double plural you have been using in "these change*s*, or other*s* > that you propose" seemed to refer to changes other than those dicussed > in this report. I take it you did not mean that and will continue to > file bugs. After all, most of my past reports had some effect on Emacs, > and almost always the one I intended. When a bug reports that Emacs doesn't do something it ought to do, like when it leaves a file with incorrect mode bits, the need to fix it is clear and doesn't need to be justified. That is not the case here, though.