From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#23425: master branch: `message' wrongly corrupts ' to curly quote. Date: Wed, 04 May 2016 22:08:51 +0300 Message-ID: <8360utiqt8.fsf@gnu.org> References: <7e599cf6-18c3-1633-33d5-e9f4eaa8fe6a@cs.ucla.edu> <20160502191031.GB2048@acm.fritz.box> <83a8k7kv87.fsf@gnu.org> <20160503162716.GB11330@acm.fritz.box> <831t5jkrn2.fsf@gnu.org> <20160503200330.GC11330@acm.fritz.box> <83twidj0tj.fsf@gnu.org> <20160504164849.GA31717@acm.fritz.box> <83d1p1iwls.fsf@gnu.org> <20160504180417.GB31717@acm.fritz.box> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1462389054 1476 80.91.229.3 (4 May 2016 19:10:54 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 4 May 2016 19:10:54 +0000 (UTC) Cc: eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 23425@debbugs.gnu.org To: Alan Mackenzie Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed May 04 21:10:42 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ay2C0-0000Eu-Uz for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 04 May 2016 21:10:41 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49773 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ay2Bw-0005eH-T9 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 04 May 2016 15:10:36 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:53417) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ay2Bm-0005Qg-8g for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 04 May 2016 15:10:32 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ay2BR-0006jO-7P for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 04 May 2016 15:10:20 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:54130) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ay2BR-0006iS-3c for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 04 May 2016 15:10:05 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ay2BN-0001fI-Li for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 04 May 2016 15:10:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 04 May 2016 19:10:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 23425 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 23425-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B23425.14623889506294 (code B ref 23425); Wed, 04 May 2016 19:10:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 23425) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 May 2016 19:09:10 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38231 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ay2AX-0001dS-Rq for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 May 2016 15:09:10 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:33879) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ay2AV-0001dD-VS for 23425@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 May 2016 15:09:08 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ay2AH-0006P3-Bm for 23425@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 May 2016 15:08:59 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:54139) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ay2AH-0006OD-8Y; Wed, 04 May 2016 15:08:53 -0400 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:2630 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1ay2AB-0003HL-2g; Wed, 04 May 2016 15:08:47 -0400 In-reply-to: <20160504180417.GB31717@acm.fritz.box> (message from Alan Mackenzie on Wed, 4 May 2016 18:04:17 +0000) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:117792 Archived-At: > Date: Wed, 4 May 2016 18:04:17 +0000 > Cc: eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 23425@debbugs.gnu.org > From: Alan Mackenzie > > > I don't. Please let's wait until 25.1 is released, the only way to > > change this decision is if we see a lot of complaints about this. > > There won't be lots of complaints about this. There will be a few people > who notice, and some of them will utterly hate it, just as I do. Some > will have their Lisp rendered unworkable, just as happened to me. There > are thousands of options in Emacs, and most users care about only a small > subset (although the subset is different for each user). You could > remove any option, no matter how "important", and you'd get only a small > number of complaints. This doesn't seem to me like the way to judge > things. I see no other way. > > That some people don't like this. But we knew that back when it was > > decided to have this feature. > > And when was this decision taken? The answer is it wasn't. Despite the > great opposition to it, Paul plowed ahead with several varied schemes for > curly quotes, not waiting for consensus first, and in the end, people > just got tired of opposing him. > > > > Put frankly, the curly quote stuff was installed into Emacs without there > > > being any consensus in favour of it, and was deliberately done in such a > > > way that it could not be disabled (see below). > > > Not true. If there were no consensus, at least not a wide enough one, > > this wouldn't have been admitted. > > That's not the way the Emacs project works. Most contributors work on a > cooperative basis and first discuss contentious things and abide by > understandings reached. You and I certainly do. That leaves us open to > abuse by aggressive committers, who don't abide by the above convention. > This is what happened with curly quotes. There is nobody in the project > who feels empowered to revert "premature" commits. That's not my recollection of how this happened. But the records are all there, so anyone can re-read them and make up their own minds.