From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
To: Sebastian Urban <mrsebastianurban@gmail.com>
Cc: 35885@debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: bug#35885: 25.2; Few mistakes in Emacs Manual (+ proposals)
Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2019 18:12:33 +0300 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <835zpltme6.fsf@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <e083f8bd-8c77-3558-c373-a8d9d9ef6079@gmail.com> (message from Sebastian Urban on Tue, 4 Jun 2019 12:48:50 +0200)
> From: Sebastian Urban <mrsebastianurban@gmail.com>
> Cc: 35885@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2019 12:48:50 +0200
>
> Thanks for the fixes, but I don't think closing this bug was good
> decision. Even if we leave quotes behind (but we won't, right?),
> Unicode code and name pairs bug will still be there.
We can continue discussing this even though the bug is closed. And
since this is a documentation "bug", closing it has no bearing on the
functionality of the software.
> > I believe you saw these in the Emacs 25 manual.
>
> No, my reference is version updated for 26.2, downloaded from official
> Emacs website with manuals. For this e-mail I also looked into HTML
> version.
Thanks, this wasn't obvious to me.
> In BASIC.TEXI (L119):
> # curved quotes @t{’}, @t{“} and @t{”}, respectively. Also, a working
> While @t{...} works for
> single quotes - both curved (#x2018 & #x2019), probably including x2
> grave accent, including x2
> apostrophe, including x2
> making all of them curved and in typewriter shape in PDF, it fails to
> show LEFT (#x201c) and RIGHT (#x201d) DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK, and
> displays instead BACKSLASH and QUOTATION MARK (#x22). It also works
> for QUOTATION MARK - @t{"}. An ugly way to fix it would be @t{``} and
> @t{''}, but I think it's not an option.
@t{} is the best trick we have for these characters, so if it doesn't
work, someone will have to suggest a better way and verify it works in
PDF. At the time we tried other methods, but AFAIR they were worse.
> In BASIC.TEXI - LINE 121:
> - and inserts `. To see which characters have @kbd{C-x 8} ...
> + and inserts @t{‘}. To see which characters have @kbd{C-x 8} ...
> Just like in L115. This bug is present in HTML version as well.
Thanks, fixed.
> As for 1st occurrence in BASIC.TEXI - L149:
> # accent and apostrophe @t{`like this'}, it is converted to a form
> It could be corrected with @kbd{`}@t{like this}@kbd{'}. Looks good
> in HTML.
Does @kbd{`like this'} work? I don't want to use @t here, as this is
keyboard input.
> As for 3rd occurrence in BASIC.TEXI - L151:
> # commands. Similarly, typing a quotation @t{``like this''} using
> As above - @kbd{``}@t{like this}@kbd{''}... Looks bad in HTML.
Does @kbd{``like this''} work?
> In DISPLAY.TEXI - L1560:
> # If the curved quotes @samp{‘}, @samp{’}, @samp{“}, and @samp{”} are
> Well here we have @samp{...} instead of @t{...}, which also fails to
> show “ and ”, displaying instead \ and " (just like @t{...}). But
> it looks good in HTML.
I changed them all to use @t{}.
> In TEXT.TEXI - L427:
> # using straight apostrophes @t{'like this'} or double-quotes @t{"like
> Similar to above example, @kbd{'}@t{like this}@kbd{'}. Looks good in
> HTML.
I don't understand why do we need to move away from @t{}. the comment
clearly says that @t{} was found to do the job here. What am I
missing?
> In TEXT.TEXI - L429:
> # left and right single or double quotation marks `@t{like this}' or
> Switch to - @t{‘like this’} - with #x2018 & #x2019.
Why? `..' is converted by TeX to curve single quotes, and ``..'' to
curve double quotes. What do you see in the PDF?
> In TEXT.TEXI - L442-443:
> - type characters it optionally converts @t{`} to ‘, @t{'} to ',
> - @t{``} to ``, and @t{''} to ''. It's possible to change the
> + type characters it optionally converts @kbd{`} to @t{‘}, @kbd{'} to @t{’},
> + @kbd{``} to ??, and @kbd{''} to ??. It's possible to change the
> Of course I don't know what to put for “ and ”, so I put ?? there.
> Also it looks bad in HTML.
I did what I could here.
> > I don't see anything wrong with the current typeface, so I left it
> > alone.
>
> In BASIC.TEXI - L116 we have:
> @code{U+2018} LEFT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK
> In SEARCH.TEXI - L1313-1314 and L1319-1320 we have:
> @sc{u+249c parenthesized latin small letter a}
> @sc{u+2100 account of}
> @sc{u+fb00 latin small ligature ff}
> In TEXT.TEXI - L430 (inside footnote) we have:
> U+2018 LEFT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK
> U+2018 RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK <--- this has wrong code!
> U+201C LEFT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK
> U+201D RIGHT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK
> So, 3 different styles.
We need to use a consistent style, that's true.
I think the @sc style is the best, because that's how the Unicode
Standard itself typesets the names in its printed version.
> I think @code{...} around Unicode code and uppercase "U" is a must.
@sc produce capital letters, so that part is OK. As for @code, I
don't agree, and neither does the Unicode Standard. Eventually, this
is a judgment call, so it's not a big deal that we don't agree.
> >> 6. In INFO 15.1.1 Basics of Incremental Search:
> >> - ‘<ESC> <ESC> <ESC>’ (‘isearch-cancel’) or ‘C-g C-g’ (‘isearch-abort’).
> >> + ‘<ESC> <ESC> <ESC>’ (‘isearch-cancel’) or ‘C-g’ (‘isearch-abort’).
> >> Because `view-lossage' and `describe-bindings' and the last paragraph
> >> of 15.1.4 say: `C-g'.
> >
> > I left this unaltered, because in some cases you do need to type C-g
> > twice, so doing it twice always is safer.
>
> Well I think the last paragraph of 15.1.4 pointed by me explains this
> behaviour. It exactly says that sometimes C-g needs to be typed twice
> to exit search. That's why I'm sticking to my version, unless you had
> other cases in mind. And "isearch-abort" is literally binded to "C-g"
> so it may rise questions.
This is a user manual, not a mathematical paper, it doesn't have to be
rigorously correct. It must be useful, though, and I think the
current text is more useful because it avoids possible confusion, even
though the users may pay one more keystroke. Okay?
Thanks.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2019-06-04 15:12 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 48+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2019-05-24 15:59 bug#35885: 25.2; Few mistakes in Emacs Manual (+ proposals) Sebastian Urban
2019-06-02 22:50 ` Sebastian Urban
2019-06-03 16:36 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-04 10:48 ` Sebastian Urban
2019-06-04 15:12 ` Eli Zaretskii [this message]
2019-06-05 10:40 ` Sebastian Urban
2019-06-05 16:52 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-06 9:49 ` Sebastian Urban
2019-06-06 21:19 ` Sebastian Urban
2019-06-09 8:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-09 8:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-10 10:30 ` Sebastian Urban
2019-06-10 17:01 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-11 10:32 ` Sebastian Urban
2019-06-11 16:59 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-12 8:44 ` Sebastian Urban
2019-06-12 13:25 ` Drew Adams
2019-06-03 16:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-10 20:02 ` Sebastian Urban
2020-08-13 9:11 ` Sebastian Urban
2020-08-13 13:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-08-13 14:06 ` Sebastian Urban
2020-08-13 14:16 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-08-14 0:01 ` Sebastian Urban
2020-08-15 13:18 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-08-15 13:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-08-15 13:52 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-08-15 14:11 ` Sebastian Urban
2020-08-16 11:16 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-08-16 13:00 ` Sebastian Urban
2020-08-18 14:54 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-08-18 15:07 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-08-19 10:15 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-08-19 8:44 ` Sebastian Urban
2020-08-19 10:19 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-08-19 12:14 ` Sebastian Urban
2020-08-20 12:44 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-08-20 13:35 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-08-20 18:24 ` Sebastian Urban
2020-08-22 7:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-08-22 10:19 ` Sebastian Urban
2020-10-19 18:52 ` Sebastian Urban
2021-05-12 14:47 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-05-13 11:48 ` Sebastian Urban
2021-05-16 13:30 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-05-18 9:17 ` Sebastian Urban
2021-05-18 13:15 ` bug#42199: " Lars Ingebrigtsen
[not found] <<cf31e2b2-3ad4-57f0-8847-e5f01ff35fc8@gmail.com>
[not found] ` <<f2fff09b-fc97-795b-dc3b-4175c48234db@gmail.com>
[not found] ` <<83k1e2tym6.fsf@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<e083f8bd-8c77-3558-c373-a8d9d9ef6079@gmail.com>
[not found] ` <<835zpltme6.fsf@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<d1695e2e-7f87-7493-fbd9-97cd6347d837@gmail.com>
[not found] ` <<83muiwrn2u.fsf@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<1583c6b3-2421-794d-8c8b-86287ef3fd5a@gmail.com>
[not found] ` <<83tvczb236.fsf@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<616312d4-0faf-0382-3f21-5b66327d8d8b@gmail.com>
[not found] ` <<83tvcx9xyl.fsf@gnu.org>
2019-06-10 17:44 ` Drew Adams
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