From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#60527: 30.0.50; Typing SPC in a minibuffer with completion Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2023 19:16:10 +0200 Message-ID: <835ydmz0dh.fsf@gnu.org> References: <91ec6e18-2748-9b75-ecd5-0c662d3f0bb5@yandex.ru> <83r0wbyo34.fsf@gnu.org> <8df48efb-9a7e-d5e7-77ff-50731d185f1c@yandex.ru> <83h6x6z792.fsf@gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="7652"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 60527@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Jan 04 18:17:16 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pD7O8-0001la-2p for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2023 18:17:16 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pD7Nv-0001m0-72; Wed, 04 Jan 2023 12:17:03 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pD7Nu-0001lr-Fl for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2023 12:17:02 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pD7Nu-0006Y3-7I for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2023 12:17:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pD7Nt-0001rv-Ou for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2023 12:17:01 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2023 17:17:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 60527 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 60527-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B60527.16728525747125 (code B ref 60527); Wed, 04 Jan 2023 17:17:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 60527) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Jan 2023 17:16:14 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49484 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pD7N1-0001qk-3t for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2023 12:16:13 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:46888) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pD7My-0001q1-2z for 60527@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2023 12:16:04 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pD7Ms-0003f2-Lz; Wed, 04 Jan 2023 12:15:58 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=nMPbLn4BvsJXopBWKA9g5gan1piSL94IuTGea6ZweMo=; b=LWMbhiQhgXWl K3UrLY7fvVOZWu16CLXhgA78Uy4CLOvlLpb5VXxWcVb4blHJ023/BBWS+c6YRprsgpkn/4S80bh56 HnRvoKzjz3ugTlJ5517sGP2piskgfeqJSYFBlQnKzL9yBuJXlB1CvkzELrnNxbt0zCgpuUMUc8opZ rgl5oyrUiZC7y5GDf9vQbhzvxUybfvuorgbu00XMnO+3+zrn+38hkSvaZboa8Bc46F3DWRITz7Z3b 90ACCQmfjE4fiPPYClOJqZuasoO809zwO1nt1ZQ1r+/KXsxgJZNwTT4aKxJoCcWDz2tL4T8jv5unq t2lG62fmoMzDEEqOr5SEOA==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pD7Mr-0003pb-LH; Wed, 04 Jan 2023 12:15:58 -0500 In-Reply-To: (message from Dmitry Gutov on Wed, 4 Jan 2023 19:00:44 +0200) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:252510 Archived-At: > Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2023 19:00:44 +0200 > Cc: 60527@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca > From: Dmitry Gutov > > On 04/01/2023 16:47, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > I didn't say I'm against any change in this behavior. Stefan proposed > > at least two alternatives that produce basically the same user-facing > > behavior when SPC is supposed to be interpreted verbatim, so they come > > very close to the alternative that you like better, but still stop > > short of breaking someone's muscle memory. > > The first alternative provides sometimes the same, and sometimes > different behavior. In particular, when there are valid completions, > "SPC" would still perform completion -- something that I don't think > many users expect. Especially novices. > > The second alternative is even more involved, requiring > 'completing-read' callers to decide in advance whether the users will > want to have SPC insert SPC or perform completion. That's still odd and > seems like crossing the proper abstraction layers. The caller might not > know the collection contains spaces. And this approach can break > established muscle memory just the same, as soon as enough callers start > to make this choice. I understand that just rebinding SPC is much easier. But we are supposed to consider other factors, not just the ease of implementation. And I'm not afraid of code that is somewhat inelegant and even breaks abstractions, if we provide better, friendlier UI which breaks less habits. Many Emacs's abstractions leak from many holes anyway.