From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#14380: 24.3; `network-stream-open-tls' fails in some imap servers on w32 Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 19:28:40 +0300 Message-ID: <834ndxwr7r.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87k3mw79iv.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87zjvr64lt.fsf_-_@lifelogs.com> <83r4h3vvca.fsf@gnu.org> <878v394uwk.fsf@lifelogs.com> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1369067388 18365 80.91.229.3 (20 May 2013 16:29:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 16:29:48 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 14380@debbugs.gnu.org, joaotavora@gmail.com To: Ted Zlatanov Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon May 20 18:29:46 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1UeSxy-0008E5-6v for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 20 May 2013 18:29:42 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47790 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UeSxx-0001Ib-Oa for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 20 May 2013 12:29:41 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:56780) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UeSxq-0001DR-KE for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 20 May 2013 12:29:39 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UeSxl-0005cC-To for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 20 May 2013 12:29:34 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:36609) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UeSxl-0005c6-QL for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 20 May 2013 12:29:29 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UeSyI-0007qk-DP; Mon, 20 May 2013 12:30:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, bugs@gnus.org Resent-Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 16:30:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 14380 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs,gnus X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 14380-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B14380.136906737430091 (code B ref 14380); Mon, 20 May 2013 16:30:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 14380) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 May 2013 16:29:34 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53197 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UeSxq-0007pI-4W for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 20 May 2013 12:29:34 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout22.012.net.il ([80.179.55.172]:58340) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UeSxn-0007p2-Tu for 14380@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 20 May 2013 12:29:32 -0400 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout22.012.net.il by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MN300700V3S2100@a-mtaout22.012.net.il> for 14380@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 20 May 2013 19:28:52 +0300 (IDT) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MN3006OKV40WF40@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Mon, 20 May 2013 19:28:49 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: <878v394uwk.fsf@lifelogs.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:74419 Archived-At: > From: Ted Zlatanov > Cc: 14380@debbugs.gnu.org, joaotavora@gmail.com > Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 09:56:27 -0400 > > On Sun, 19 May 2013 18:32:37 +0300 Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > >> My proposal would be to push out the next Emacs bundled with the latest > >> GnuTLS DLLs, only support GnuTLS, provide users with instructions on > >> updating them, and treat GnuTLS vulnerabilities as Emacs > >> vulnerabilities. This is not ideal but IMO better than the current > >> situation. > > EZ> I see no problems with the current situation. Installing precompiled > EZ> GnuTLS from a zip file is a snap. > > That's only a small part of the risk and responsibility we're shifting > onto the Emacs users. What risk? what responsibility? A user who installs software on her computer is already trusted with certain responsibilities, because a single mistyped command or a badly built package can easily shut down a perfectly healthy system for hours, if not days. Users install dozens of packages needed to create a workable environment for whatever they need to accomplish. Why is GnuTLS so special? And mind you, in view of the latest sparring between GnuTLS developers and the FSF (which I have no idea how ended, except that the license was downgraded a bit and the official site moved), I'm not even sure the FSF will agree to distribute GnuTLS with Emacs, on any platform. Why should Emacs development enter this minefield? And for what? for solving a non-existing problem of installing a simple package? Don't we have better places to apply our time and energy? Don't misunderstand me: if someone decides to provide regular builds of GnuTLS ready to be downloaded and installed, I will applaud that person. Heck, it will be one less duty for me, for starters, as far as the Windows binaries are concerned. But please don't represent this as a must for Emacs, because it isn't.