From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#16407: Info-directory-list should always put this Emacs's info direc first Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 10:19:18 +0200 Message-ID: <8338kwckqh.fsf@gnu.org> References: <838uuocnn9.fsf@gnu.org> <4s4n5cl20f.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1389342012 4938 80.91.229.3 (10 Jan 2014 08:20:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 08:20:12 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 16407@debbugs.gnu.org To: Glenn Morris Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jan 10 09:20:18 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1W1XKC-0000st-Vl for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 09:20:17 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55790 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W1XKC-0000e8-Hj for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 03:20:16 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:34661) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W1XK4-0000cn-NN for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 03:20:14 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W1XJz-0006JC-1o for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 03:20:08 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:58916) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W1XJy-0006Ie-Um for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 03:20:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1W1XJy-0005w5-EL for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 03:20:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 08:20:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 16407 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 16407-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B16407.138934196522748 (code B ref 16407); Fri, 10 Jan 2014 08:20:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 16407) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Jan 2014 08:19:25 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44702 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1W1XJM-0005up-7V for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 03:19:24 -0500 Original-Received: from mtaout20.012.net.il ([80.179.55.166]:56478) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1W1XJJ-0005ub-9K for 16407@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 03:19:22 -0500 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout20.012.net.il by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MZ600G00F1N7000@a-mtaout20.012.net.il> for 16407@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 10:19:19 +0200 (IST) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MZ600FEMF47ZO80@a-mtaout20.012.net.il>; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 10:19:19 +0200 (IST) In-reply-to: <4s4n5cl20f.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:83223 Archived-At: > From: Glenn Morris > Cc: 16407@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 02:38:56 -0500 > > Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > That leaves system administrators no means of forcing a specific > > version of Info manual to be found by default. > > That is true, it does not, but only for manuals that come with Emacs. They are a plenty. > I cannot think of a case where a *sysadmin* would want to force > Emacs to prefer some other version of a manual to the one that comes > with Emacs. Can you give an example? On a multi-user system, INFOPATH can be customized differently for each user, but /usr/share/info is a single directory. Suppose some users want to stay with an older Emacs, while others want the bleeding edge. > (And they could always do it with some site-specific elisp if they > really wanted to. But I expect it to be very much a fringe case.) Experience has taught us that there are too many "fringe cases" when Info docs are concerned. The code to which you pointed was a result of prolonged discussions in the past, and many micro-corrections due to these fringe cases. Eventually, some of the use cases stay unsupported, and AFAIR cannot be supported without hurting no less important cases, because Info simply is not designed for there being several manuals by the same name on INFOPATH. > By default, Emacs uses the Gnus that comes with Emacs. > To get it to use a different Gnus, you have to customize load-path. > I do not think it unreasonable that you should have to similarly > customize Info-directory-list to get the right manual. The question is not what's reasonable. The question is do people (or "make install" of those packages) actually do that. > > Is this the only situation where the current arrangement doesn't DTRT, > > or are there more? If this is the only one, then you cannot solve it > > successfully: the Info system simply doesn't support well the use case > > where several different manuals have identical names. > > I don't understand why it cannot be solved successfully by doing what I > said. I don't care about seeing multiple versions of the manuals with > the same name, I want to see only one version, and I want that version > to be the version that comes with Emacs. Again, since Emacs, like every other package, installs its Info files in a single global directory, you don't actually know what is "the version that comes with Emacs", except when Emacs runs uninstalled (in which case it already does what you want). All you know is that there's some FOO.info file in /usr/share/info. If it is overwritten, you don't know that. So this problem is in general unsolvable. > And note that the Mac platform has already behaved as I request for some > years. I don't recall seeing any complaints. This goes both ways: I don't recall complaints about the current arrangement, either.